M1863 Bridesburg Needham Conversion

[RSMorris]

Got this delivered today. M1863 Bridesburg with the Needham Trapdoor Conversion with the Fenian "IN" stamp on the left flat.

 

[RSMorris]

some more

 

[Jeff in Ohio]

Yep, that's one of them.
Incorrect modern ramrod, I think.
I never owned one, but always was interested in these, even though I am not Irish.

 

[RSMorris]

Huh, it looks like all the others I've seen. Will check it out.

 

[RSMorris]

Would a M1863 Springfield type ramrod be the correct ramrod one for this?

 

[Jeff in Ohio]

I say yes.
The Model 1861s had a ramrod with the swell toward the tulip end. The stock of a model 1861 has a widened place in the wood to accept this swell.
The later Model 1863s (with the flat hammer) were equal thickness, no swell. the stock of a model 1863 does not have this widened place.
Most suppliers NEVER changed from the 1861 to the model 1863, so their products are all model 1861s, even the ones dated 1863 and 1864.

 

[RSMorris]

I say yes.
The Model 1861s had a ramrod with the swell toward the tulip end. The stock of a model 1861 has a widened place in the wood to accept this swell.
The later Model 1863s (with the flat hammer) were equal thickness, no swell. the stock of a model 1863 does not have this widened place.
Most suppliers NEVER changed from the 1861 to the model 1863, so their products are all model 1861s, even the ones dated 1863 and 1864.

I see one that is advertised as a M1863/65 that looks very much like this. Is that the same that will fit? I sent you a couple of pics.

 

[Jeff in Ohio]

Check to see if the Needham conversion barrel was shortened from the original length. You should be able to measure and compare

 

[RSMorris]

Check to see if the Needham conversion barrel was shortened from the original length. You should be able to measure and compare

This barrel not including the breech tang is 40"

 

[JimW]

I say yes.
The Model 1861s had a ramrod with the swell toward the tulip end. The stock of a model 1861 has a widened place in the wood to accept this swell.
The later Model 1863s (with the flat hammer) were equal thickness, no swell. the stock of a model 1863 does not have this widened place.
Most suppliers NEVER changed from the 1861 to the model 1863, so their products are all model 1861s, even the ones dated 1863 and 1864.

Agreed, I notice this has the 1863 barrel bands and stock (no band springs) so this looks like a model 1863.

 

[RSMorris]

I notice this has the 1863 barrel bands and stock (no band springs).

It does say 1863 on the lock.

 

[JimW]

It does say 1863 on the lock.

The lock dates can be confusing, as they interchange a lot ( well, before the conversion!). But taking all of it into account, sure looks like a model of 1863 was the start of it.

 

[RSMorris]

Does anyone know if Bridesburg made their own ramrods or did they use the Springfield ramrods?

 

[Jeff in Ohio]

It does say 1863 on the lock.

The date on the lock is the date the lockplate was made.
But a lockplate does not show the model number.
It is the other characteristics that show the change from one model (1861) to another (1863).
The changes were in shape of hammer, shape of bolster, shape of barrel bands, and change to straight ramrod. Some early model 1863s didn't have band springs, but later model reinstated the band springs.

 

[RSMorris]

The date on the lock is the date the lockplate was made.
But a lockplate does not show the model number.
It is the other characteristics that show the change from one model (1861) to another (1863).
The changes were in shape of hammer, shape of bolster, shape of barrel bands, and change to straight ramrod. Some early model 1863s didn't have band springs, but later model reinstated the band springs.

Thank you, I guess since this doesn't have band springs I guess that makes this one an early model 1863. The ramrod chanel is also straight with no swell to accomodate the swelled 1861 ramrod tube.

 

[RSMorris]

Yep, that's one of them.
Incorrect modern ramrod, I think.
I never owned one, but always was interested in these, even though I am not Irish.

I'm not Irish either, just fascinated by the story. Had never heard of it before until reading in the Bridesburg with an O thread.

 

[scooter748driver]

I guess since this doesn't have band springs I guess that makes this one an early model 1863.

From the photos it looks like the barrel bands have screws at the bottom. That's the same as my early 1863 Springfield rifle.

 

[RSMorris]

From the photos it looks like the barrel bands have screws at the bottom. That's the same as my early 1863 Springfield rifle.

They do, I had them off this morning.

 

[RSMorris]

Does anyone have a book that tells what the G marking is on the nosecap and the U on the barrel bands? I know they are probably proof marks or inspection marks, just curious if there is a name attached to them. I have the inpector marks book but it seems to mostly talk about cartouches.

 

[JimW]

The u marking is "UP" towards the muzzle (especially for the screw on bands). Take a photo of the G