Lorenz

[Hoplite]

Was at an encampment this past weekend and one of the Union re-enactors had an actual Lorenz- not pieces mind you- an actual example.
I was amazed at how small and light it was.
While it is criticized all the time I did find one thing interesting- the way the bayonet affixes- no twisting, turning, it just settles right down and in.
The Austrians got something right!~

 

[Cornpone and Molasses]

The Austrians are great engineers at making things simple. Look at the Glock pistol which is the go to gun for most police agencies. There are only 34 parts in a Glock pistol. I hope to add a Lorenz musket to my collection someday.

 

[C. Cash]

By June 1864 about half of Wheeler's troopers had the Lorenz.

 

[ConfederateCanuck]

Small and light? The 1854 Lorenz weighed the same as an 1853 Enfield and was only 2.5 inches shorter. Do you have a picture of it? I'm wondering if it's a cut-down version or a carbine.

 

[BillO]

If it is an original the stock probably weighs much less than it did when new. It's had a while to dry out.

 

[Jeff in Ohio]

I've handled Lorenz rifles and Enfield M1853 rifle-muskets, and the Lorenz rifles sure seem lighter than the Model1853 rifle-muskets. They are shorter, for sure.

 

[neyankee61]

The 5th NJ were issued Lorenz in the fall of 1861. This after they were issued 1816 altered Springfields in Sept 1861. The soldiers loved them and carried them thru the Gettysburg Campaign. They felt they were much better than the Enfield or Springfield rifles

 

[PrivateBrooke]

At least two regiments in the Iron Brigade also carried Lorenz rifles. It's a nice arm. I wanted a repro but I don't feel like selling my kidney right now...

 

[RSMorris]

There is a Lorenz hanging in our local history center that was suppossedly burned during the battle for Atlanta.

 

[tbuckley]

This isn't a Lorenz. The Lorenz in the Model 1854. This is a Model 1842 converted from tubelock to percussion.

 

[Tanglewood]

By June 1864 about half of Wheeler's troopers had the Lorenz.

Back in the 1960s and 1970s I dug Springfield, Enfield, and Lorenz parts in the Union siege lines in southwest Atlanta. The lines were built and occupied from mid summer into September 1864. I was surprised to find the Lorenz was still in use that late, even in Sherman's well equipped army.

 

[C. Cash]

Back in the 1960s and 1970s I dug Springfield, Enfield, and Lorenz parts in the Union siege lines in southwest Atlanta. The lines were built and occupied from mid summer into September 1864. I was surprised to find the Lorenz was still in use even in Sherman's well equipped army that late.

Interesting! Wonder if they could have been battlefield pickups from the fighting around Bald Hill?

 

[RSMorris]

This isn't a Lorenz. The Lorenz in the Model 1854. This is a Model 1842 converted from tubelock to percussion.

THat's funny because when I posted this a few months ago I was told by multiple people it was a Lorenz.

 

[Jeff in Ohio]

TBuckley is correct, and this is an Austrian musket, not a Lorenz rifle. There are some obvious differences - without getting too complicated, an easy to see difference is that this has the "finger ridges" in the metal behind the trigger guard, and the Lorentz guard tangs are smooth.

 

[tbuckley]

THat's funny because when I posted this a few months ago I was told by multiple people it was a Lorenz.

The musket in the picture is a M1842. If possible, you should check European Arms In The Civil War by Schwalm and Hoffman.

 

[RSMorris]

The musket in the picture is a M1842. If possible, you should check European Arms In The Civil War by Schwalm and Hoffman.

I believe you.

 

[Tanglewood]

Interesting! Wonder if they could have been battlefield pickups from the fighting around Bald Hill?

I personally would doubt it, but anything is possible. I and many others hunted our neighborhood when it was woods and as it was being developed house by house, and also a huge tract of woods that belonged to historic Westview Cemetery, adjoining our neighborhood and walking distance from my home as a kid. It has all been developed as cemetery sections now, or is part of a landfill on land that they sold off. There were so many screws and square nails from wooden boxes, they were a real nuisance (no discriminating detectors back then). Lots and lots of horseshoes. Lots of dropped bullets, Eagle buttons of course, just a lot of everything. They seem to have had so much, I would guess that any rebel guns they gathered were just to be destroyed or were picked up for personal relics.
I should have noted before that gun parts were very predominantly M1861, then P1853, then a very few Lorenz parts. There were quite a few batteries, and at least some of the artillery men were armed with Spencers, judging from the Spencer shells and drops found in the batteries.

 

[C. Cash]

I personally would doubt it, but anything is possible. I and many others hunted our neighborhood when it was woods and as it was being developed house by house, and also a huge tract of woods that belonged to historic Westview Cemetery, adjoining our neighborhood and walking distance from my home as a kid. It has all been developed as cemetery sections now, or is part of a landfill on land that they sold off. There were so many screws and square nails from wooden boxes, they were a real nuisance (no discriminating detectors back then). Lots and lots of horseshoes. Lots of dropped bullets, Eagle buttons of course, just a lot of everything. They seem to have had so much, I would guess that any rebel guns they gathered were just to be destroyed or were picked up for personal relics.
I should have noted before that gun parts were very predominantly M1861, then P1853, then a very few Lorenz parts. There were quite a few batteries, and at least some of the artillery men were armed with Spencers, judging from the Spencer shells and drops found in the batteries.

Must have been incredible finding those. I was suprised to note that at the Southern Museum at Kennesaw they poo poo the Lorenz as an inferior, second rate weapon. Pretty sure it gave good service. My gg Grandfather JM Cash was with Wheeler in the 5th Tenn. Cav(McKenzie's) and would like to think he had one. But Enfields and some few Sharps and captured Spencers also in the ranks. In my one and only civil war article(for which most folks seem to be very thankful..ha!) I had to slide in a picture of the Lorenz. https://www.westerntheatercivilwar....s-tennessee-cavalry-brigade-at-pickett-s-mill

 

[RoBert "Bert" Hile]

One was found in a dry cave out in New Mexico near Goriettia Pass, with a nipple chipped on the edge, and the ramrod missing. May have been carried by one of the Texans. Secret Mission Of the Civil War is the book, not sure of the title and will not dig it out of my books at this point in which the Confederate Supply Officer went to Europe and purchased Lorenz weapons, and two full batteries of Napoleons. Got them into the port at Savannah and the ship was turned into the Abermarle (forgive the spelling, old and dyslexic.) A gunsmith in San Marcos was working on it for the owner in 1990s. I always found it interesting that the M-1 Garand and the Enfield weighted the same.

 

[Racing]

Here you go. That´s a Lorenz, one that never left for the US and was used at the battle of Königgrätz where the Austrians lost vs the Preussians. 54 caliber and an earlier gun, meaning cast barrel.
If you just slug them and get the right Minie style bullet for them they shoot just fine to this day.