Muzzleldrs Lorenz Question

[Conquerordie]

I've read that the Lorenz made for the Austrian military all had cheekpieces and eagles stamped in the lock. I was looking at a Lorenz with the 861 on the lock, and it has an eagle, but it doesn't have a cheekpiece? Where they using locks for the military to complete export arms? Trying to figure out if the gun was original, or parts replaced. The patina matches the whole gun, so it might have been replaced a long time ago. Thanks for any insight.

 

[Sundance]

Well, I know the 861 means it was built in 1861 but you probably know that. I have one with the cheekpiece but no number on the lock that I can see.

 

[Don Dixon]

Locks manufactured at the Austrian Army's Vienna Arsenal were used in export variant Muster 1854 rifle muskets, as were locks which were not marked with the Kaiser's double headed eagle and the three digit date code which were manufactured in contractor shops.

 

[Jeff in Ohio]

If you will take some photos and post them, you'll get additional info about your Lorenz. There are variations that can be identified by photos. Don Dixon, to be specific, is a real expert on all aspects of these arms.

 

[Lanyard Puller]

I looked at all of mine.
5@ "G" marked all "860" date and all with cheek pieces. The "G" is the small "G" type +- 1/4 inch, stamped on the right side of the butt stock about 1/2 way from the wrist to the butt plate.

2 Virginia ID.ed ones;
Both from The Stonewall Brigade; 1 from Co. D, 5th. Va. the other from Co. C. 4th Va. One is dated "860" and has a cheek piece. The other is dated "857" with no cheek piece. There are no identifying Virginia marks, only the carved ID's of the soldiers who used them.

Here's a book you may want to get:

 

[Conquerordie]

If I can get back to the shop I saw it at Ill try to take some pics. I'm glad to hear the the lock would be appropriate on an export type of rifle. I'll definitely be picking up that book. If I can I'll post pics. Thank all for the help!

 

[Conquerordie]

Well the gun was gone so I lost that one. I was looking at another Lorenz online and it has a 857 date, eagle, and a cheekpiece, Type 1 block rear sight. So I assume this one was made for the Austrians military service. It has many more markings all over the parts. I guess my concern is that of my concern with Enfield's. Did the Austrians sell the M1854 to other countries as well? The Enfield's went all over the world, so I hesitate to buy one, as I can not prove it was here, just that one was made during the Civil War era.. Am I in the same boat with a Lorenz? Just curious.

 

[Old Soldier]

Lorenz exports did not always have the cheekpiece, especially the later versions. Reason; Cutting costs and production time. The cheekpiece was an Austrian military requirement

 

[Conquerordie]

Yes I agree about the cheekpiece. But where these sold off to other countries, or just the North and South. Last thing I want is a Lorenz that was never here, and sat out it's life somewhere in Europe. That would not be what I'm looking to collect. But if they were primarily sold to The North or South, then I'd feel more comfortable purchasing one.

 

[Don Dixon]

Dare I say you are over thinking this problem. Austrian weapons were not sold overseas in the same quantities as the Enfield. But, the Piedmontese and French captured large numbers of Austrian arms in the 2nd Italian War of Independence, although most of them probably ended up with the Federals and Confederates. The Ottomans, Serbs, and Montenegrins used M1854s but most of them were transformed to breechloading. I think the Federals ran significant numbers of them to the Mexican Republican Army to fight the French. And, there was the ever creative Liege arms trade. Where does any surplus firearm come from after it has been run through the hands of the f**ing gunrunners?

 

[Conquerordie]

Don,

I probably am. I guess my collection is small, financially I can not go and purchase things just because they could have been here. I just want to make every purchase count. Appreciate the knowledge you've shared.