Longstreet

[rpkennedy]

Longstreet's public image was shaped by his actions AFTER the war and had few defenders .

To the defenders of " The Lost Cause " Longstreet was a traitor . He very publically criticized Lee after the war and the Lee Cult crucified him thereafter . That was his first mistake .

It is easy to characterize Longstreet as questionable when it comes to issues of loyalty ....especially to the Southern cause . His post-war relationship with Sickles had to have added fuel to his critics fire . Essentially Longstreet sided with Old Dan and together they sought to congratulate each other for winning the war for the Union and together attended Gettysburg reunions .

Unlike Sickles , Longstreet had problems defending himself in print . His attempts at addressing his critics only made things worse . He reminded his fellow Southerners that " We are a conquered people " and was immediately vilified and even received death threats !

Longstreet set himself up as a scapegoat .

In Longstreet's defense, Early fired the first volley in the Lost Cause war (in 1872, IIRC) although Longstreet was being called a traitor in the late 1860s by D.H. Hill.

R

 

[Delhi Rangers]

Nobody could replace Longstreet .....agreed .

There just seems to be a spiteful element in Longstreet's actions . Why didn't he allow Hood to make any adjustments to the plan ? ( Hood probably would have anyway ) His insistence on following Lee's orders to a " T " on July 2nd doesn't make sense . Lee was no where near the the front . Perhaps if Lee was there to witness what was going on events may have transpired differently . Regardless Longstreet should have wiped the III Corps off the face of the earth July 2nd without sustaining the damage suffered .

Longstreet lost his edge .

A fully functioning Longstreet should have been able to influence Gen Lee accordingly. At the very least he should have been capable of coordinating a better attack against Sickles advanced line .

Longstreet's troops on July 2 actually inflicted more casualties than they sustained. Very uncommon for an attacking force. He even stated that the performance of his men that day were the finest three hours of fighting that he ever witnessed. But I believe that Longstreet's greatest hour and performance was his attack at the Wilderness. JMO.

 

[War Horse]

In Longstreet's defense, Early fired the first volley in the Lost Cause war (in 1872, IIRC) although Longstreet was being called a traitor in the late 1860s by D.H. Hill.

R

I completely agree. Longstreet simply was in the wrong place at the wrong time. I admire the man. He stuck to his beliefs and wood not allow peer pressure to influence him. At the time of his post war plunge, a dejected and "yes" somewhat defeated people were angry and looking for a way to vent their frustration's. Robert E. Lee was considered deity. ( No one attacked Longstreet until after Lee's Death) jealous former comrades, Early being the first! Elected Longstreet as the scapegoat based on his current unpopular political view. When Longstreet finally decided to defend himself his words did nothing but fuel the already incited populous. There was not way he was going to win that battle.

Fortunately history has a way of correcting itself and many of the reasons Longstreet made the choices he made have played themselves out and proven his thinking was correct. Ahead of his time in warfare and in his vision of what was needed to bring the Union back together. Now after many years of scrutiny objective historians are correcting the wrongs of their ancestor's (who simply poured fuel on the fire) and are setting the record straight. Men of vision are often criticized, thank God the great ones have the character and resolve to not give into to the scrutiny.

 

[Eagle eye]

Here are two quotes I find interesting.

"Bring me Longstreet's head on a platter and the war will be over."
--President Abraham Lincoln.

"To Kill Longstreet."
--President Lincoln on the morning of the Battle of the Wilderness when asked about the best thing that could happen to the Union that day.

-------------------------------
War Horse… could you please cite the source for these quotes… I'm not sure that I've read them before. Thanks.

 

[War Horse]

-------------------------------
War Horse… could you please cite the source for these quotes… I'm not sure that I've read them before. Thanks.

Yes, I can but like I said I read it on the internet.

http://www.longstreetsociety.org/Longstreet_Quotes.html

 

[Eagle eye]

Yes, I can but like I said I read it on the internet.

http://www.longstreetsociety.org/Longstreet_Quotes.html

----------------------------
Thanks War Horse… I've never seen that web site so I appreciate you listing it. Looking forward to combing tru it

 

[JEB]

----------------------------
Thanks War Horse… I've never seen that web site so I appreciate you listing it. Looking forward to combing tru it

Same here !

 

[JPK Huson 1863]

His decisJPK Hudson, the attached link is the best explanation I have seen concerning the post bellum decline in reputation suffered by James Longstreet. Several factors play into to it. Joining the Republican party, very unpopular with the Southern States, After the end of the war Longstreet felt stongly that the best path to reconstruction was to reestablish the entire nation as one undivided Union which meant full cooperation from the southen states.(He believed in the republican plateform and would not be a democrat simply because it was the popular party)
His decsion to live in New Orleans, one of the most volitile cites of the post war era breaming with Southern discontent for the Union. This was no place for the outspoken Longstreet to enter the political arena especially on the unpopular platform.
His friendship with Ulysses S. Grant. This caused jealousy among among former Confederate officers feeling Longsteet had become Republican for his own financial gain. The truth is Longsteet suffered with extreme poverty for seven years after announcing his political affilliation.
The battle of Liberty Place. It's all here along with citations and historical referrences points.

It's really an excellent thesis and brings to the point that James Longstreet was a victim of his own pride, outspokenness and the convenient escape goat of the surrendered Confederacy who's pride and confidence desperately needed to believe in the lost cause theory.

http://www.loyno.edu/~history/journal/Canzona.htm

Thanks very much! It's difficult for basic beginners ( that would be me ) to get good reads on a lot of these people- as you know, SO many had varying careers post-war, with varying degrees of success. Dad always liked Longstreet, since he generally knew what he was talking about I figured there had to be a lot of substance to his opinion. Like an idjit, never asked him why beyond the basics, you know?

I guess even a beginner like myself can see the man being a victim of his own pride- what man of his make-up would or could do anything differently?

( Yes, meant to say Thanks very much for the link, too! )

 

[Lost Cause]

Thanks very much! It's difficult for basic beginners ( that would be me ) to get good reads on a lot of these people- as you know, SO many had varying careers post-war, with varying degrees of success. Dad always liked Longstreet, since he generally knew what he was talking about I figured there had to be a lot of substance to his opinion. Like an idjit, never asked him why beyond the basics, you know?

I guess even a beginner like myself can see the man being a victim of his own pride- what man of his make-up would or could do anything differently?

( Yes, meant to say Thanks very much for the link, too! )

To further add to this discussion, Longstreet was one of the few commanders in the ANV who was not a Virginian. This may not mean much today, but Virginians often were held to a higher esteem at that time. That being said, I am of the opinion that he was one of the best supporting corps commanders in the ANV. Unfortunately, he was frequently late to critical events and his performance was poorer as an independent commander. He separated from Lee during the Chancellorsville campaign in an unsuccessful attempt to capture Suffolk, Va. His rationale was to capture much needed supplies, but it was suspected that he wanted his own command and to separate himself from Lee. After Gettysburg he successfully petitioned the Confederate Govt. to transfer his Corps. to the Western theater. His rationale for the transfer was the Western theater was more critical to the war than the Eastern theater. Again, it has been argued he wanted away from Lee. Of course, he was the largely responsible for the timely victory during the battle of Chickamauga. Unfortunately, General Bragg had a personality conflict with the majority of his General staff, including Longstreet. This led him to a failed attempt to capture Knoxville. He and his Corps then returned to the ANV where it sounded like the grass was greener.

A good book covering Longstreet's colorful career is "Lees Tarnished Lieutenant"

 

[FarawayFriend]

I completely agree. Longstreet simply was in the wrong place at the wrong time. I admire the man. He stuck to his beliefs and wood not allow peer pressure to influence him. At the time of his post war plunge, a dejected and "yes" somewhat defeated people were angry and looking for a way to vent their frustration's. Robert E. Lee was considered deity. ( No one attacked Longstreet until after Lee's Death) jealous former comrades, Early being the first! Elected Longstreet as the scapegoat based on his current unpopular political view. When Longstreet finally decided to defend himself his words did nothing but fuel the already incited populous. There was not way he was going to win that battle.

Fortunately history has a way of correcting itself and many of the reasons Longstreet made the choices he made have played themselves out and proven his thinking was correct. Ahead of his time in warfare and in his vision of what was needed to bring the Union back together. Now after many years of scrutiny objective historians are correcting the wrongs of their ancestor's (who simply poured fuel on the fire) and are setting the record straight. Men of vision are often criticized, thank God the great ones have the character and resolve to not give into to the scrutiny.

Thank you, War Horse for this great post! I do agree 100%.

In another thread somebody doubted Longstreet's observations and wrote that he had his reasons for publishing his memoirs only after Lee's death. I replied then that he had sent all his documents to Lee as Lee wanted to write his memoirs (which he never did or at least never completed). so Longstreet showed his respect by not surging ahead and leave the first word to Lee. But the reason you stated is even more plausible. Nobody would have attacked Lee's second in command and highly esteemed corps commander while Lee still lived.

 

[Jamieva]

To further add to this discussion, Longstreet was one of the few commanders in the ANV who was not a Virginian. This may not mean much today, but Virginians often were held to a higher esteem at that time. That being said, I am of the opinion that he was one of the best supporting corps commanders in the ANV. Unfortunately, he was frequently late to critical events and his performance was poorer as an independent commander. He separated from Lee during the Chancellorsville campaign in an unsuccessful attempt to capture Suffolk, Va. His rationale was to capture much needed supplies, but it was suspected that he wanted his own command and to separate himself from Lee. After Gettysburg he successfully petitioned the Confederate Govt. to transfer his Corps. to the Western theater. His rationale for the transfer was the Western theater was more critical to the war than the Eastern theater. Again, it has been argued he wanted away from Lee. Of course, he was the largely responsible for the timely victory during the battle of Chickamauga. Unfortunately, General Bragg had a personality conflict with the majority of his General staff, including Longstreet. This led him to a failed attempt to capture Knoxville. He and his Corps then returned to the ANV where it sounded like the grass was greener.

A good book covering Longstreet's colorful career is "Lees Tarnished Lieutenant"

Seeing as how the list of corps commanders in the history of the ANV is pretty short that's a somewhat backhanded compliment to say he was "one of the best". The only one you could make a case above him is Jackson. So he's #2 at worst. I guess in some eyes that qualifies as "one of the best" but most of the others were at best average, if that.

Lee ordered Longstreet to Suffolk because the army was in bad, bad shape food wise that winter. It was a grand forging expedition. Lee sent the artillery back to the north anna in the winter for the same reason.

 

[rpkennedy]

Thank you, War Horse for this great post! I do agree 100%.

In another thread somebody doubted Longstreet's observations and wrote that he had his reasons for publishing his memoirs only after Lee's death. I replied then that he had sent all his documents to Lee as Lee wanted to write his memoirs (which he never did or at least never completed). so Longstreet showed his respect by not surging ahead and leave the first word to Lee. But the reason you stated is even more plausible. Nobody would have attacked Lee's second in command and highly esteemed corps commander while Lee still lived.

D.H. Hill was attacking Longstreet before Lee's death. As early as 1868, he was castigating Longstreet as a traitor to the South by conspiring and cooperating with the Republicans, but was not, to be fair, casting aspersions on Longstreet's military career.

R

 

[Lost Cause]

Seeing as how the list of corps commanders in the history of the ANV is pretty short that's a somewhat backhanded compliment to say he was "one of the best". The only one you could make a case above him is Jackson. So he's #2 at worst. I guess in some eyes that qualifies as "one of the best" but most of the others were at best average, if that.

Lee ordered Longstreet to Suffolk because the army was in bad, bad shape food wise that winter. It was a grand forging expedition. Lee sent the artillery back to the north anna in the winter for the same reason.

Thank you for your response. I will go out on a limb and say he was one of the best commanders in the Confederacy. Unfortunately, his performance as an independent commander was obviously less than stellar. This was the opposite of Jackson. I will refrain from getting into that debate. You are correct about Suffolk, lee sent Longstreet to gather forage, which essentially he achieved that goal.

 

[Jamieva]

Thank you for your response, I will go out on a limb and say he was one of the best commanders in the Confederacy. Unfortunately, his performance as independent commander was obviously less than stellar. This was the opposite of Jackson. I will refrain from getting into that debate. You are correct about Suffolk, lee sent Longstreet to gather forage, which essentially he achieved that goal.

We agree on these points.

 

[UKMarkw]

He hesitated to follow Lee's orders, pure and simple. After thought can make him right but he couldn't operate pouting as he was for whatever reason.

Did that hesitation make any difference? He gave the order and followed the order he knew as did everyone else was wrong

 

[UKMarkw]

McLaws' advance doesn't make sense .Why did Kershaw move and Barksdale not follow ? Kershaw was exposed to enfilade fire from troops that Barksdale would have easily driven off . How is this not BAD tactics ?The primary weakness of Sickles' position was the ability to be attacked from TWO sides . Why didn't Longstreet do so ??

That is an excellent question!

 

[UKMarkw]

D.H. Hill was attacking Longstreet before Lee's death. As early as 1868, he was castigating Longstreet as a traitor to the South by conspiring and cooperating with the Republicans, but was not, to be fair, casting aspersions on Longstreet's military career.

R

It would appear that 'Old Pete' could accept a war lost better than D H Hill could.

 

[Lost Cause]

Did that hesitation make any difference? He gave the order and followed the order he knew as did everyone else was wrong

I think there is also speculation that Longstreet's troops could have captured the round tops since they were reportedly un-defended early on, if he had not delayed.

 

[rpkennedy]

It would appear that 'Old Pete' could accept a war lost better than D H Hill could.

There are few who can hold a grudge like D.H. Hill.

R

 

[rpkennedy]

I think there is also speculation that Longstreet's troops could have captured the round tops since they were reportedly un-defended early on, if he had not delayed.

His men would not have approached the Round Tops if the 2nd US Sharpshooter had not fallen back in that direction, drawing Hood's men with them. No troops in that direction, no attack towards the hills.

R