Lee Lee's Post War Comments

[Manassas]

From most of what I've read about Lee's post war comments, they were of reconciliation, and becoming good citizens in the new reunited States of America. But a quote from the book " The South Was Right" references a comment from Lee that I had not heard before and perhaps shows his frustration at the treatment of the southern states following the conflict. As noted in the book, in August of 1870, while meeting with Governor Stockdale and some ex-Confederates, Lee said "Governor, if I had foreseen the use those people designated to make of their victory, there would have been no surrender at Appomattox Courthouse; no sir, not by me. Had I foreseen these results of subjugation. I would have preferred to die at Appomattox with my brave men, my sword in this right hand"
Quite a comment.
Can anyone confirm or deny that Lee actually said that?

Scott

 

[damYankee]

I'm sure someone on the forum knows.

 

[Copperhead-mi]

I believe that the Kennedy brothers took that quote from Robert Dabney's 1903 biography of Lee. Dabney's recollection of the conversation that took place are tertiary and it wasn't made public via his book until after both Lee and Stockdale had died. There is no other record by any other party who was aware of comments such as these from Lee. This alleged conversation was held between two persons that existing evidence indicates were not close, personal friends. It seems suspect that a man would bare a feeling as Lee expressed to a non-confidant, yet not to any personal friends or family. It is also during this same period that Lee, with Grant's help, was attempting to receive a pardon and did not know whether the government might reopen its treason case against him. Further, this type of statement is inconsistent with just about everything that Lee had stated or wrote after the War.

 

[cash]

See Douglas S. Freeman, R. E. Lee: A Biography, Vol 4, p. 374. Freeman discusses the alleged quotation in a footnote and discounts it.

Dabney and Stockdale claim the meeting where Lee is alleged to have said this took place at White Sulphur Springs in the summer of 1870, the year Lee died. Lee went to Staunton on August 29 to attend a meeting of the stockholders of the Valley Railroad. The stockholders met in Staunton on the morning of August 30. "Upon the conclusion of the stockholders' meeting, General Lee returned to Lexington. It was his last journey." [Douglas Southall Freeman, R. E. Lee: A Biography, Vol 4, p. 480] Also, this particular fairy tale does not appear in Charles Bracelen Flood's Lee: The Last
Years.

 

[AndyHall]

@Copperhead-mi is correct; the sourcing for this quote is very dubious, and doesn't square with what is otherwise known.

That's not to say that Lee wasn't bitter about the war; he was, as Gary Gallagher discussed in a presentation that's available online. But he was also circumspect, and not the sort of man who would say something like that to someone he did not know well. He would not have fit in well with today's "TMI" culture. As Gallagher says, "I guarantee you Robert E. Lee would not have gone on Oprah."

 

[AshleyMel]

I've seen this quote from time to time. Never any other source than the above mentioned. Personally, I take this one with with a grain of salt.

 

[Albert Sailhorst]

I agree with everyone!!....One source that can't be corroborated, and is uncharacteristic of anything Lee had said before....

 

[Manassas]

Thanks to all, for your timely and informative replies.
That quote does indeed seem quite out of character for Lee...but part of me still wants to believe it was actually uttered.
Only because Lee was so magnanimous in defeat, that I wish he, or any ex-Confederate had uttered such a statement in light of North's post war treatment of the South. If no one actually said it...some, must have felt it

 

[Pvt.Shattuck]

You must be kidding.
Never in the history of warfare has a victor been more magnanimous to a defeated enemy than the north to the south. Especially after a bloody rebellion like the American Civil War.
Lee and Davis could easily have been hung as traitors to start with.
I don't believe Lee ever said anything like the above because he **** well knew it.
Bitter, indeed

 

[brass napoleon]

I believe that the Kennedy brothers took that quote from Robert Dabney's 1903 biography of Lee. Dabney's recollection of the conversation that took place are tertiary and it wasn't made public via his book until after both Lee and Stockdale had died. There is no other record by any other party who was aware of comments such as these from Lee. This alleged conversation was held between two persons that existing evidence indicates were not close, personal friends. It seems suspect that a man would bare a feeling as Lee expressed to a non-confidant, yet not to any personal friends or family. It is also during this same period that Lee, with Grant's help, was attempting to receive a pardon and did not know whether the government might reopen its treason case against him. Further, this type of statement is inconsistent with just about everything that Lee had stated or wrote after the War.

Not to mention the fact that Dabney was one of the biggest fairy-tale spinners of them all, with a proven track record of grossly distorting facts to promote his blatant Lost Cause agenda.

 

[MaryDee]

Thank you, @AndyHall, for the video. I had seen it before (we discussed it on the Monday night chat some time back), but I got far more out of it from watching it a second time.

 

[brass napoleon]

From most of what I've read about Lee's post war comments, they were of reconciliation, and becoming good citizens in the new reunited States of America. But a quote from the book " The South Was Right" references a comment from Lee that I had not heard before and perhaps shows his frustration at the treatment of the southern states following the conflict. As noted in the book, in August of 1870, while meeting with Governor Stockdale and some ex-Confederates, Lee said "Governor, if I had foreseen the use those people designated to make of their victory, there would have been no surrender at Appomattox Courthouse; no sir, not by me. Had I foreseen these results of subjugation. I would have preferred to die at Appomattox with my brave men, my sword in this right hand"
Quite a comment.
Can anyone confirm or deny that Lee actually said that?

Scott

I'll add one more thing to the excellent posts above. This remark was supposedly made immediately after a conference on Reconstruction with representatives from both the North and the South present, in which Lee voiced no serious objections to Reconstruction policy. The suggestion that Lee would have sat there quietly stewing over Reconstruction policy without saying a word, then turn to a complete stranger when the meeting was over and vent his spleen, is not only completely contrary to what he allegedly said about "dying at Appomattox ... my sword in my right hand", but it paints Lee as an abject, craven coward. The only thing I can say in Dabney's favor is that he was wise to wait until after Lee was dead to make such an insinuation.

 

[Manassas]

You must be kidding.
Never in the history of warfare has a victor been more magnanimous to a defeated enemy than the north to the south. Especially after a bloody rebellion like the American Civil War.
Lee and Davis could easily have been hung as traitors to start with.
I don't believe Lee ever said anything like the above because he **** well knew it.
Bitter, indeed

You must be kidding.
Never in the history of warfare has a victor been more magnanimous to a defeated enemy than the north to the south. Especially after a bloody rebellion like the American Civil War.
Lee and Davis could easily have been hung as traitors to start with.
I don't believe Lee ever said anything like the above because he **** well knew it.
Bitter, indeed

Wow.. clearly a nerve has been touched...wasn't Washington once a soldier in

You must be kidding.
Never in the history of warfare has a victor been more magnanimous to a defeated enemy than the north to the south. Especially after a bloody rebellion like the American Civil War.
Lee and Davis could easily have been hung as traitors to start with.
I don't believe Lee ever said anything like the above because he **** well knew it.
Bitter, indeed

No I'm not kiYikes, clearly a response such as mine is not tolerated in this forum by

You must be kidding.
Never in the history of warfare has a victor been more magnanimous to a defeated enemy than the north to the south. Especially after a bloody rebellion like the American Civil War.
Lee and Davis could easily have been hung as traitors to start with.
I don't believe Lee ever said anything like the above because he **** well knew it.
Bitter, indeed

No bitterness, just a comment...sorry if I touched a nerve.
I guess it's okay for Washington to have once served in the British Army and then lead a revolt over them to not be considered the same fate and hung ?

 

[Scott Bowden]

From most of what I've read about Lee's post war comments, they were of reconciliation, and becoming good citizens in the new reunited States of America. But a quote from the book " The South Was Right" references a comment from Lee that I had not heard before and perhaps shows his frustration at the treatment of the southern states following the conflict. As noted in the book, in August of 1870, while meeting with Governor Stockdale and some ex-Confederates, Lee said "Governor, if I had foreseen the use those people designated to make of their victory, there would have been no surrender at Appomattox Courthouse; no sir, not by me. Had I foreseen these results of subjugation. I would have preferred to die at Appomattox with my brave men, my sword in this right hand"
Quite a comment.
Can anyone confirm or deny that Lee actually said that?

Scott

Scott, I gave a talk on "Lee, the War and Its Aftermath" that includes a detailed discussion of this subject at the February 2015 SD Lee Institute in Dallas. The audio of this presentation may be easily accessed at the SD Lee Institute web site. Hope you have a chance to listen to my remarks. Regards,

 

[Manassas]

Scott, I gave a talk on "Lee, the War and Its Aftermath" that includes a detailed discussion of this subject at the February 2015 SD Lee Institute in Dallas. The audio of this presentation may be easily accessed at the SD Lee Institute web site. Hope you have a chance to listen to my remarks. Regards,

Thanks Scott.. I will indeed check out your remarks...I'm always fascinated by the post war comments of those who survived the struggle. By the way, Dallas is on my "bucket list" of places to visit, perhaps even one of those Civil War round table discussion groups and of course the CW museum in Fort Worth.
Are there any other CW sights in TX that you'd recommend I visit?

thanks
Scott

 

[Scott Bowden]

Thanks Scott.. I will indeed check out your remarks...I'm always fascinated by the post war comments of those who survived the struggle. By the way, Dallas is on my "bucket list" of places to visit, perhaps even one of those Civil War round table discussion groups and of course the CW museum in Fort Worth.
Are there any other CW sights in TX that you'd recommend I visit?

thanks
Scott

If the venue is just Texas, and if time permits, I suggest Galveston be part of the tour. Worthwhile.

 

[Pvt.Shattuck]

"If we do not hang together, gentlemen, surely we shall hang separately. "
Benjamin Franklin
The Founders understood perfectly well the penalty likely to be exacted by the British crown should they fail in their treason.
The South got off easy.