Lee Lee as a Person

[hanna260]

So @rhettbutler1865 has a great thread up about the personal side of Grant and I figured why not- I like Lee, I haven't talked about him yet, and it might be fun to hear stories about him.

So- Lee, if there's anyone else who has been tacked on more with marble and yet, I really don't think think he's benefited from it. He's such an amazing person, yes, but also such a fascinating person- he was a person, not a statue but you'd never know- the way some people talk about him. So, before I got into the ACW, I thought of him as someone really boring, someone really stiff and perfect- I was so surprised to hear he had a sense of humor! I believe @diane told a story of him putting on a shawl and a cozy and dancing around in front of some stuffy, old ladies. And I was also really suprised to learn that he had a bit of a martyr complex- ever read one of the letters to his daughter, saying that they were probably happier without him their.

He also had a hard upbringing- usually it's Grant contrasted with him as the poor farmer and him the aristocrat but his family actually went under after his father died and he was such a great care-giver to his mother- while Grant enjoyed a middle-class background.

So- any Lee stories you all want to share?

 

[JPK Huson 1863]

I'd be interested too? The thing about Lee which gets lost and I'm interested in hearing more of is his post-war identity. To hear the popular version, the poor man is stuck forever riding some loop on Traveler forever and ever between 1861 and 1865- The End. It always sounds like his job heading the academy later was almost this pity thing- was really surprised and happy to hear it was no such thing. The guy was a genuine leader there, too, I guess he's just so venerated for his role as General R.E. Lee this next career gets lost. Seems a shame- must have been a huge amount of hard work, dedication and commitment involved, great end chapter to a huge life.

 

[peteanddelmar]

So @rhettbutler1865 has a great thread up about the personal side of Grant and I figured why not- I like Lee, I haven't talked about him yet, and it might be fun to hear stories about him.

So- Lee, if there's anyone else who has been tacked on more with marble and yet, I really don't think think he's benefited from it. He's such an amazing person, yes, but also such a fascinating person- he was a person, not a statue but you'd never know- the way some people talk about him. So, before I got into the ACW, I thought of him as someone really boring, someone really stiff and perfect- I was so surprised to hear he had a sense of humor! I believe @diane told a story of him putting on a shawl and a cozy and dancing around in front of some stuffy, old ladies. And I was also really suprised to learn that he had a bit of a martyr complex- ever read one of the letters to his daughter, saying that they were probably happier without him their.

He also had a hard upbringing- usually it's Grant contrasted with him as the poor farmer and him the aristocrat but his family actually went under after his father died and he was such a great care-giver to his mother- while Grant enjoyed a middle-class background.

So- any Lee stories you all want to share?

I like 2 aspects of his military life that are not super popular.
First his scouting routes in Mexico to lead the army in. And during one of these scouts having to lay behind a log while enemy soldiers sat very near. Maybe ON the log.
Second his engineering projects near St. Louis and other areas that were of great civil benefit.

His courteous and gracious personality I can not even begin to get started. HE was the de facto leader of the Confederacy by late war, but could not bring himself to give up until he had done what he felt was his duty. Complicated guy.

 

[rhettbutler1865]

You beat me to it, Hanna...Lee was next. I was shocked to read Lee wore a size 41/2 C shoe !!!He was 5'11" and 175, but the dainty feet of a boy.

 

[Tom Elmore]

Post-war, when Lee headed Washington College in Lexington, one of the professors began to rant about the Republican candidate for President - Grant. Lee replied, "Sir, if you ever again presume to speak disrespectfully of General Grant in my presence, either you or I will sever his connection with this university." [Lee, the Last Years, by Charles B. Flood]

 

[MRB1863]

You beat me to it, Hanna...Lee was next. I was shocked to read Lee wore a size 41/2 C shoe !!!He was 5'11" and 175, but the dainty feet of a boy.

A 4 1/2 shoe!!! That's an incredibly small foot!

 

[Dave Wilma]

Did Lee have any close friends?

 

[Henry Whitworth]

I like 2 aspects of his military life that are not super popular.
First his scouting routes in Mexico to lead the army in. And during one of these scouts having to lay behind a log while enemy soldiers sat very near. Maybe ON the log.
Second his engineering projects near St. Louis and other areas that were of great civil benefit.

His courteous and gracious personality I can not even begin to get started. HE was the de facto leader of the Confederacy by late war, but could not bring himself to give up until he had done what he felt was his duty. Complicated guy.

Yeah, the first time I read about the Mexican War I was shocked that those stories aren't more widely told because they're like something out of a movie. You can find so many of the familiar Civil War figures back there, young and daring and making a name for themselves. Grant, Davis, Longstreet, Meade, Lee... And Lee's insanely bold scouting adventure outside of Mexico City possibly turning the tide of the whole campaign.

 

[hanna260]

Did Lee have any close friends?

Y'know it's funny- from what I read, he could be aloof and had a hard time making close friends- many acquaintances whom he liked and liked him, I guess you could say, not too many people he could slap on the back and say brother. I actually read somewhere that Grant for all his own troubles- had an easier time of making close friends than Lee did. But Lee in the war, demonstrated that he had a gift for making men love him.

 

[Henry Whitworth]

Y'know it's funny- from what I read, he could be aloof and had a hard time making close friends- many acquaintances whom he liked and liked him, I guess you could say, not too many people he could slap on the back and say brother. I actually read somewhere that Grant for all his own troubles- had an easier time of making close friends than Lee did. But Lee in the war, demonstrated that he had a gift for making men love him.

Lee had extremely high standards for himself and I don't get the impression that he really put people at ease. It's more like you'd want to measure your words and be on your best behavior around him and relax with your friends later. As for Grant, I don't think he had troubles making friends at all. "Pete" Longstreet, for example, may have served under Lee but he was a close friend of Grant's before and after the war. There's also the story of Grant being torn up for weeks in Mexico the first time he lost a friend in combat. This thread is about Lee, I know, but I think the contrast is telling. Lee rarely exposed such vulnerability and emotion. I was just reading about how when he was trying to jump on board with the army leaving for Mexico he didn't take the extra few hours to cross the river and say goodbye to his wife and children. Duty called. That seems like Lee all the way.

 

[diane]

The young Lee was very much like his father, Harry. He loved to flirt and sent racy letters to ladies, and loved a good time. Sometimes he'd get so tickled with a joke he'd double over laughing, tears in his eyes! When he was very young he was 'carrying the keys of the house' as the saying went, being the only male in a houseful of women, most of whom were sickly. The nurturing side of him was always apparent - when his kids were sick or injured he was the one kept watch on them. I suspect living down his father's and half-brother's reputations was sobering. Being remarkably attractive and a Lee, he had ladies around the block and over the horizon waiting for him but was always frustrated. Even though he had an impeccable character, every time he wanted to marry somebody their daddy would resoundingly say NO, not that Lee! Even his future father-in-law, who had known Harry very well, had deep reservations about his daughter's marrying Lee but she was his little princess and she usually got what she wanted - in this case, Lee. She had her reservations as well.

As it turned out, Lee had some of his great-grandfather's (King Carter) business acumen - he did very well managing Mary's money and making his own, with good investments and sound enterprises. Steady in his career, not getting far but keeping the bills paid and food on the table. In fact, he was looking at a comfortable retirement when the war broke out and he then lost all his Northern investments.

In a way, the war let Lee's wild side come out! All the frustrations and repressed 'stuff' could find an outlet in warmaking - he was excellent at this. And, being a soldier was NOT what he wanted - he wanted to be a doctor. That's one of the reasons he started reforming education, making his college more flexible in opportunities. His education at West Point was quite good if one wanted to be an engineer or a soldier. He wanted to be neither but his education suited him for just about nothing else. He wanted the graduates of his college to have more options.

In many ways, Lee led a life of quiet desperation. He loved his family, loved his wife and all that but he was always doing what others expected him to do. Getting saddled with a bunch of slaves he didn't really want to manage, having to pay off other people's debts, having a career others wanted...sometimes he probably felt like just running to the hills never to be seen again! But his solid sense of duty, both from family values and from training, kept his nose to the grindstone he'd been given.