Lawrence list?

[archieclement]

Was wondering thoughts on it? Real or metaphor? Seems both guerrilla and Lawrence citizens accounts mention one, not aware of any surviving example.

So I've wondered is it metaphor for they knew who they were after, or was there physical list/lists. Like one frequently hears "black flag" which seems mostly metaphor rather then they often physically carried a black flag.

Its always been strange to me how it could even worked, as there were hundreds of raiders. Wouldn't it required a bunch of copies? If it was "memorized" that would rather be more they knew who they were after, then a physical list.

 

[RedRover]

Was wondering thoughts on it? Real or metaphor? Seems both guerrilla and Lawrence citizens accounts mention one, not aware of any surviving example.

So I've wondered is it metaphor for they knew who they were after, or was there physical list/lists. Like one frequently hears "black flag" which seems mostly metaphor rather then they often physically carried a black flag.

Its always been strange to me how it could even worked, as there were hundreds of raiders. Wouldn't it required a bunch of copies? If it was "memorized" that would rather be more they knew who they were after, then a physical list.

From William E. Connelley, Quantrill and his border wars:

If it is true it was perhaps nothing new. From the Kansas troubles of 1856:

Hamilton and company shortly after committed the Marais de Cygnes massacre of free state men on May 19, 1858.

 

[archieclement]

From William E. Connelley, Quantrill and his border wars:

View attachment 481229

If it is true it was perhaps nothing new. From the Kansas troubles of 1856:
View attachment 481230
View attachment 481231

Hamilton and company shortly after committed the Marais de Cygnes massacre of free state men on May 19, 1858.

The problem there is Connelly has little credibility.

 

[RedRover]

From a more recent history, by Nicole Etcherson, "Bleeding Kansas" (2004), p. 237.

"Many victims, such as Sarah Fitch, recalled that the bushwhackers had a list of names. She thought they knew of her husband's involvement in a local military company. The use of Sallie Young as a guide also indicated the raiders had decided their victims in advance. Fifteen year-old William Speer escaped death by giving a false name. Raiders checked a list on which the Speer name doubtless figured, as William's father John Speer was a newspaper editor and Lane ally. Williams' older brothers, John Jr. and Robert, did not survive the raid. Robert's body was never found, but his pocketbook was on the body of Larkin Skaggs, the only bushwhacker to die in the raid, killed at the end of the day, ironically by young William Speer and a Delaware Indian, White Turkey."

 

[Lusty Murfax]

If there was such a list, how did Missourians come up with those names? Lawrence is some 40 or so miles west of the border. Many of raiders came from Counties two to three deep east of the border. Lane and Jennison were generally well known, but how many others had gained enough notoriety to appear on any murder list? Did Quantrill have spies residing in Lawrence? Were the identities of kansas terrorists published in local newspapers?

 

[archieclement]

Assuming lists existed, and would by necessity had to been numerous, why do none exist?

They would been discarded at end of raid, their significance would have been recognized if found. Think "death lists" would actually been used as propaganda. Which mention of would be certainly propaganda if false, but if true wouldn't physical list and names had more propaganda value?

 

[RedRover]

Mrs. Fitch's comment suggests they might have had a copy of some kind of militia muster roll. I think the suggestion that names of targets had been gathered from newspapers is probably reasonable too. "Regulator" violence was not unknown in the ante-bellum period, and names were frequently dropped in the papers. An example from Illinois:

Augusta Chronicle, Augusta, GA, 9-19-1846

Sometimes the "regulator" violence was met by "moderator" violence. the groups not infrequently provided names by various "vigilance committees."



The use of written lists by these groups in Kansas in the 50s and 60s is not so odd. In the 1850s, when out of towners showed up in Kansas, how would they know A., who to gun for, and B. who to leave be.

Mention was made of the belief that in the 1850s Hamilton's pro-slavery company had a list of free-staters to target.
It is also said that John Brown's company had a hit list of pro-slavery men on his subsequent Pottawatomie creek massacre. From an account credited to John Jr. and Salmon Brown, John's sons:

Lots of lists around in the 50s. In the political issues over the Territory's government, there were census lists and voter registrations, based on the competing Topeka, Lecompton, Wyandotte constitutions, etc.

Regarding the Lawrence raid during the war, the history of the town by Mr. Cordley (1895) suggests that any lists aside, the killing appeared somewhat indiscriminate in many if not most cases. Some of the raiders sparing a house, or a fellow, etc., and then another group coming up and burning it and shooting the man.

 

[Patrick H]

This link will take you to a lengthy but very fair minded analysis of the Lawrence raid. It was published by the Kansas State Historical Society. I know many will doubt its fairness at the outset, but it's worth a read. It asserts that Quantrill had accomplices living in Lawrence who helped him in various ways. One woman is said to have drawn detailed maps of the town, with notations on various houses and buildings--"burn," "burn," "kill and burn," etc. etc. etc. It asserts she smuggled the map out to a meeting point and gave it to Q. Other accomplices are said to have prepared lists of addresses. Who knows? It could have happened. I think many of you will find this article pretty fascinating.

Quantrill's Raid on Lawrence: A Question of Complicity - Kansas Historical Society

Kansas Historical Society

www.kshs.org

 

[archieclement]

This link will take you to a lengthy but very fair minded analysis of the Lawrence raid. It was published by the Kansas State Historical Society. I know many will doubt its fairness at the outset, but it's worth a read. It asserts that Quantrill had accomplices living in Lawrence who helped him in various ways. One woman is said to have drawn detailed maps of the town, with notations on various houses and buildings--"burn," "burn," "kill and burn," etc. etc. etc. It asserts she smuggled the map out to a meeting point and gave it to Q. Other accomplices are said to have prepared lists of addresses. Who knows? It could have happened. I think many of you will find this article pretty fascinating.

Quantrill's Raid on Lawrence: A Question of Complicity - Kansas Historical Society

Kansas Historical Society

www.kshs.org

I imagine he had sources, he himself had lived in Lawrence, Anderson had lived in Kansas, I'm sure there would been others. As well they seem to have been able to scout at will.

 

[archieclement]

Mrs. Fitch's comment suggests they might have had a copy of some kind of militia muster roll. I think the suggestion that names of targets had been gathered from newspapers is probably reasonable too. "Regulator" violence was not unknown in the ante-bellum period, and names were frequently dropped in the papers. An example from Illinois:
View attachment 481241
Augusta Chronicle, Augusta, GA, 9-19-1846

Sometimes the "regulator" violence was met by "moderator" violence. the groups not infrequently provided names by various "vigilance committees."



The use of written lists by these groups in Kansas in the 50s and 60s is not so odd. In the 1850s, when out of towners showed up in Kansas, how would they know A., who to gun for, and B. who to leave be.

Mention was made of the belief that in the 1850s Hamilton's pro-slavery company had a list of free-staters to target.
It is also said that John Brown's company had a hit list of pro-slavery men on his subsequent Pottawatomie creek massacre. From an account credited to John Jr. and Salmon Brown, John's sons:
View attachment 481242

Lots of lists around in the 50s. In the political issues over the Territory's government, there were census lists and voter registrations, based on the competing Topeka, Lecompton, Wyandotte constitutions, etc.

View attachment 481244

Regarding the Lawrence raid during the war, the history of the town by Mr. Cordley (1895) suggests that any lists aside, the killing appeared somewhat indiscriminate in many if not most cases. Some of the raiders sparing a house, or a fellow, etc., and then another group coming up and burning it and shooting the man.

But goes to contradictory statements by Lawrence citizens. Some say they were selective, others say indiscriminate. Would think indiscriminate would fit an agenda or biased driven narrative. As there was nothing to gain by those citizens pointing out they were actually selective.

Certainly in cases where victim had known jayhawker ties, it would fit the selective rather then indiscriminate view.

As well one may been able to hoodwink a group of unknown men, but not if personally recognized later.