Monuments James Robertson speaks

[cash]

That's #2 fan in the Bud Robertson fan club cause I'm #1

If you were #1 you'd have been in the audience too. I got to speak with Dr. Bud between speakers.

 

[cash]

I saw another guy towards the back dressed in the VT uniform, also

There were about five of us representing during the conference.

 

[Jamieva]

If you were #1 you'd have been in the audience too. I got to speak with Dr. Bud between speakers.

Got a special needs child I can't jaunt off on the weekends.

 

[Jamieva]

Yes - he did say that. Plaques are needed for today. Primarily because so much of the roaming public AND a lot of educators btw are uneducated in American History and what Heritage actually means. The statues themselves and the people in them no longer have any meaning, besides the meaning that loud-mouth groups (who themselves don't understand the history) appropriate and whip the crowds up with for hate and/or their own agendas. The generation that understood the meaning of the different leaders is gone. Also, as he kept referencing Virginia and he is obviously very, very proud of his great state of Virginia, the state itself has changed. He wants, for one particular statue (and I don't remember which one) a montage of figures to represent what Virginia is NOW - female, black, white, male, hispanic, etc. Not to show the token groups but to show how the state has grown and blossomed and what it has become through all those people and groups.

The particular statue he mentioned was one for Doug Wilder, the first elected black governor in the US

 

[Lost Cause]

Thanks, but I am old myself and prone to fall asleep at sentimentalism and nostalgia. Perhaps someone will do some summaries.

Coffee works wonders .

 

[RobertP]

"Dr. Bud", a very southern address. I like that. Of course you have to reach a certain age to get the courtesy as I do more and more these days. Seems like I'm hearing Mr. Robert, and Señor Roberto, pretty often now.

 

[jgoodguy]

Coffee works wonders .

So I am told, but coffee makes me gag. No wonder coffee cups are filled with 10% coffee and the rest milk, sugar and other stuff to hide the taste.

 

[Lost Cause]

So I am told, but coffee makes me gag. No wonder coffee cups are filled with 10% coffee and the rest milk, sugar and other stuff to hide the taste.

I prefer an occasional cup of higher octane with light sugar.

As far as the presentation, I agree with others that one does not have to agree with all of the points to find it to be interesting and worthwhile to hear.

 

[Bee]

As far as the presentation, I agree with others that one does not have to agree with all of the points to find it to be interesting and worthwhile to hear.

Apparently, not all are in agreement:

http://cwmemory.com/2018/07/31/james-i-robertsons-monument-rant/

A truncated review of the presentation that is an outgrowth of a series of "Tweets". My observation regarding the exchanges (see below) was apparently heeded, but I am holding out for a more scholarly analysis of the whole presentation, rather than a hit list of the aforementioned errors (previously alluded to in my earlier post.)

I read somewhere of the untimely death of the blog & in its place comes Twitter. I say break out the Defib, 'cause this medium ain't working. Snark, snipe, & spew. The video has errors and merit. It and Dr. Bud deserve better than terse sound bites & snappy one-liners.


​

 

[WilliamH]

I really enjoyed it and agreed with most of it, especially his line of thinking with the compromise that is possible concerning monuments. Some monuments can be taken down, while additional information can be added to other existing monuments and new monuments can be added to better tell the entire story, but lets not hide or destroy history...

 

[RobertP]

"Civil War Memory", a blog written by a fanatic high school teacher. Kevin Levin in his best dreams will never have the stature or class that Bud Robertson enjoys every day. It is really sad to see that happen.

 

[contestedground]

Some monuments can be taken down, while additional information can be added to other existing monuments and new monuments can be added to better tell the entire story, but lets not hide or destroy history...

Taking down a monument of Robert E. Lee does not destroy Lee's history. It destroys an artifact of the history of why people put up that monument.

 

[WilliamH]

Taking down a monument of Robert E. Lee does not destroy Lee's history. It destroys an artifact of the history of why people put up that monument.

I think we basically agree... I would say it hides the history of Robert E. Lee by placing him out of public sight. I agree with you it destroys how you say "history of why people put up that monument", additionally I would say it destroys the historic landscape of the community, much like destroying an old historic building would.

 

[jgoodguy]

IMHO CSA monuments are a political question and while academic and history can inform the politics, it is ultimately a political question. If you cannot compress the information by said academic and historical sources to a form I can listen to comfortably, god save you with the general public. Shaming them is less effective than shaming me.

 

[CMWinkler]

It is sad to see Mr. Levin's personal attack on Dr. Robertson. He complains that Dr. Robertson offers no support for his positions, while noting that Dr. Robertson's was a keynote address rather than outlining a specific thesis with the necessary support and then he devolves into ad hominem. Hisclosing, to me, says it all: "At some point you need to know when to bow out gracefully."

 

[RobertP]

It is sad to see Mr. Levin's personal attack on Dr. Robertson. He complains that Dr. Robertson offers no support for his positions, while noting that Dr. Robertson's was a keynote address rather than outlining a specific thesis with the necessary support and then he devolves into ad hominem. Hisclosing, to me, says it all: "At some point you need to know when to bow out gracefully."

I follow him on Twitter occasionally and he seems to be a nasty little guy if you don't agreee with him. You see, he alone knows the golden truth and he believes he's the one anointed to spread it. All this while teaching at an elite, pricey, all-white high school in Massachusetts.

 

[jgoodguy]

Yes - he did say that. Plaques are needed for today. Primarily because so much of the roaming public AND a lot of educators btw are uneducated in American History and what Heritage actually means. The statues themselves and the people in them no longer have any meaning, besides the meaning that loud-mouth groups (who themselves don't understand the history) appropriate and whip the crowds up with for hate and/or their own agendas. The generation that understood the meaning of the different leaders is gone. Also, as he kept referencing Virginia and he is obviously very, very proud of his great state of Virginia, the state itself has changed. He wants, for one particular statue (and I don't remember which one) a montage of figures to represent what Virginia is NOW - female, black, white, male, hispanic, etc. Not to show the token groups but to show how the state has grown and blossomed and what it has become through all those people and groups.

I find this a very good point.

Exactly. We can't expect people to know, if we aren't willing to educate them. Like an old supervisor once said to me, "I can't expect you guys to learn from your mistakes, if you don't know what those mistakes actually are." Some may not want to listen, but I believe most are very willing to listen and to try to learn something.

Good point too.

As @Bee said you need to listen carefully to the entire presentation to get the overall message, otherwise you'll end up focusing on the parts you either agree with or disagree with......at least that was what I found. His advocacy of discussion, respectful debate and compromise as the underpinning of a democratic society is something I strongly support.

However, I am not a fan of long boring presentations no matter the perceived value. There is a notion that if you cannot summarize an idea in a one-page memo, you are in deep trouble.

 

[CMWinkler]

I follow him on Twitter occasionally and he seems to be a nasty little guy if you don't agreee with him. You see, he alone knows the golden truth and he believes he's the one anointed to spread it. All this while teaching at an elite, pricey, all-white high school in Massachusetts.

Mr. Levin and I have had some conversations. They've never been overly pleasant. His attack on Dr. Robertson though is, in my opinion, wholly unwarranted. I certainly didn't agree with everything Dr. Robertson said, but with his knowledge, experience and reputation of scholarship, he bears listening to and respecting his views.

 

[NH Civil War Gal]

I went over to Mr. Levin's Blog to see what the fuss was and was dismayed that he called Dr. Robertson's talk a "Rant." I know what a Rant is when I see it and that was the polar opposite of it.

 

[jgoodguy]

I went over to Mr. Levin's Blog to see what the fuss was and was dismayed that he called Dr. Robertson's talk a "Rant." I know what a Rant is when I see it and that was the polar opposite of it.

Could fall into the definition of rant. Synonyms: tirade, diatribe, broadside. It is very hard to summarize a rant and there seems to be no summaries of this presentation. Is the beauty just in the presentation?

noun

1. 1.
   a spell of ranting; a tirade.
   "his rants against organized religion"
   synonyms: tirade, diatribe, broadside;

Is Levin accurate on the following points?
http://cwmemory.com/2018/07/31/james-i-robertsons-monument-rant/#more-34567

Let me be clear, Robertson is entitled to take any position on this debate that he wants. That is not my concern here. What disappointed me was his inability to provide a coherent argument in support of his position. Along the way he made a number of suspect claims after insisting that Americans today know less than generations past – a claim that is often repeated, but unsupported by the evidence.

Robertson insists that slavery was dying a natural death by 1860. In his usual routine of waxing poetic about Robert E. Lee he suggested that Americans were more connected to their respective states as opposed to the nation. So much for trying to understand West Point graduates from the South who refused to resign their commissions in the United States army. According to Robertson, the Postal Service was the only way that the federal government directly impacted individual Americans.

Much more problematic, however, was the failure to acknowledge the long history of controversy surrounding these monuments, especially stemming from within the African-American community. In a room with an audience of older white people this was an especially disappointing oversight. Black Americans don't exist in his understanding of the relevant history and in the context of the current debate.​