Is it a cleaner bullet?

[jerseyjim]

I found this while metal detecting in the Mullica River, NJ. It was in three feet of water, it measures 15/8 inches in length, it is 3/4 " at the base. It seems to be lead, Can someone give me some information on this object?

 

[Frederick14Va]

Its not a Civil War era Williams Cleaner bullet.... the design feature doesn't ring a bell or look familiar with anything civil war era related.... I do not notice evidence of a mold sprue that would imply it was hand cast... (v/s swagged or pressure molded that wouldn't have one)... will have to do some book referencing on that one...

Do you have ability to put a gauge on it to get the exact diameter measurement?..... abt 3/4 in is a bit large for most CW era military arms... it would put the caliber closer to around a 10 gauge shotgun slug...

 

[Patrick H]

I've never seen anything quite like it, but I'm certainly not a bullet expert. I think it's a neat find--whatever it turns out to be. I'll be checking back here in hopes that someone can explain exactly what you've found.

 

[John Winn]

I've not seen anything like that either (but also have a limited knowledge of projectiles) and was hoping somebody like @Frederick14Va would enlighten us. I'm curious.

Maybe it's not even a projectile but just looks like one ? I don't see the purpose of the 'stem' in the middle with the little circle of lead at the rear.

 

[tbuckley]

It doesn't look like any Civil War bullet I have seen.

 

[Frederick14Va]

Still looking... but by the size and design feature... still leaning towards it being a shotgun slug... There was a type near identical to this commonly known as a Wad or Key Slug... it had a conical bullet looking head... a deep recess at the back... and a flat base... The recess sometimes used a felt wad/washer kinda insert in it... helped seal the barrel during discharge.. and lessened the pressure strain on the choke of the barrel... The rear of the projectile in this manner also caused drag... which was by intention... so to better stabilize and counteract the projectile from wanting to tumble since it was front heavy... Not many people seek out nor collect modern era shotgun slugs so cant find many reference images on them...

 

[John Winn]

Shotgun slug is right I think. Looks a lot like this one:

http://www.dixieslugs.com/products.html

 

[Frederick14Va]

Shotgun slug is right I think. Looks a lot like this one:

View attachment 76612
http://www.dixieslugs.com/products.html

Cool... I think that's an updated design of them... I couldn't find an image that matched... only text description of them in a book...lol...

 

[John Winn]

Cool... I think that's an updated design of them... I couldn't find an image that matched... only text description of them in a book...lol...

Absolute blind luck. After reading your post about it maybe being a slug I just Googled 'shotgun slug images' and there it was. It doesn't look like the ones I'm familiar with - which is why I didn't recognize it as a slug initially - but my knowledge of shotgun slugs is quite limited. I'm a buckshot kind of guy - you know, civilian canister.

 

[Lt.Drake]

I'm no expert on antique shotgun slugs myself, but I am a bit of a combat shotgun expert, so hopefully some of my useless knowledge will help you.

A 12 gauge shotgun with a cylinder bore is usually .729 caliber. A 10 gauge is .77 caliber A slug for a shotgun has to fit inside the shell, and has to compensate for the reduction of barrel size in shotguns with different chokes, so they're usually smaller than the bore diameter, usually running about .69 caliber for 12 gauge slugs.

If the projectile you found is 3/4", that makes it a .75 caliber round. It's possible that it is a 10 gauge slug, as that's about the size of one. I don't think it would be a 12 gauge. It's probably very old then, just going off of my own theory that 10 gauge was more popular than 12 gauge in the mid to late 1800's, and nobody really plays around with the big 10's anymore.

Hope this helps.

 

[Frederick14Va]

This was one of three main design types of shotgun slugs that were around during the turn of the century period... Only one of which survived the test of time and is still used today (Foster). which has the external groves on it and hollow based... As John has found there are some that will toy and alter the old designs trying to make something new... If folks used a single projectile in a shotgun previous it was typically just a round ball...

The OP hasn't posted again yet... not sure if the 3/4 size mentioned was a guess with a ruler or with a gauge... so since both 12 and 10 gauge are relatively close to that was too close to call yet.. 10 gauge was popular at the turn of and early third or half of the century... They seemed to like them especially up North with big game and goose hunting... Generally don't find them much down South as much... down here 12 and 16 gauge was fairly popular back then... 12 gauge survived the test of time... the others not so much...lol..

 

[tbuckley]

A 10 gauge might not be too old. Back in the 1980s, Ithaca made a 10 gauge magnum automatic which was available with a 21 inch barrel. Harrington & Richardson also made a single shot 10 gauge magnum at the same time. The H&R was available with a 36 inch barrel or a shorter barrel with sights. The 10 gauge 3.5 inch magnum was a short lived fad back then that didn't last because of the cost and also the fact that the shooter had to be a masochist to shoot it.

 

[John Winn]

A bit off topic but I shot a 10 gauge once and decided that if that's what I had to do to get a bird to eat I'd just go to the grocery store. About the same time I also shot (once) a .457 Weatherby Magnum and determined that I was more than content to just let remarkably large game alone.

Years ago when I did IPSC I learned to handle a 12 (not magnum) semi-auto and it's plenty enough for me. I do wonder what was being hunted with the OP round ?

 

[Frederick14Va]

Up there still are some 10 Ga out there... the repeated attempt to rebirth them didn't seem to go too far.... especially with the increased cost of both the weapon, and the ammunition when and IF one could even find it.... If you need a shell that large throwing five pounds of lead down range at something... I say you just need a bigger gun, like a rifle instead...

When I was a kid everyone I knew started out with either a 410 or 20 ga.... I didn't have either and straight to the 12 ga...lol... Of course at 9 years old or so that was quite the impression and recoil... Thought Id been hit with the recoil of a howitzer.... as I was staggeringly getting back up off the ground.... dad just snickered... "get used to it"...

410's are still out there.. heck they make a revolver now that can fire 410 shells... that's impressive.. Haven't seen much of 20 gauges in awhile around here... it was always considered one of those first shotgun kinda thing... At one time popular for small game .. rarely see the guns or the ammo on the shelf.... Another that faded quietly was the 28 ga.... Of course I later learned that one could take the brass and shell of the 28 ga, empty it, cut down and modify it, reload with BP... and can be used in the old British Enfield-Snider 577 (which I have one)... so of course the ammo isnt to be found...lol... I once got to see an 8 ga double barrel.... early 1900's... now that was a massive weapon..

 

[Frederick14Va]

A bit off topic but I shot a 10 gauge once and decided that if that's what I had to do to get a bird to eat I'd just go to the grocery store. About the same time I also shot (once) a .457 Weatherby Magnum and determined that I was more than content to just let remarkably large game alone.

Years ago when I did IPSC I learned to handle a 12 (not magnum) semi-auto and it's plenty enough for me. I do wonder what was being hunted with the OP round ?

Have seen and handled the 10's.. but never had opportunity to shoot one.... Older brother liked the big guns... He had a 300 Mag... that was an anti-tank round I think... shell looked like a 12 ga shell with a 30 cal bullet stuck on the end... geez... He also had a couple Weatherbys... Very nice guns... and very nicely expensive too if I recall.... I just had my plain old 12 ga in 2 2/3 shell.... back when everyone was running to buy and brag on the 3 and 3 1/2 mag shells.... I put just as much if not more meat in the freezer as they did...lol.. They would come out with their 300 mag with scope big enough you could see a fly at a thousand yards... me with my simple open sight 30-30..... lol.... bigger isnt always better... lol

 

[John Winn]

Have seen and handled the 10's.. but never had opportunity to shoot one.... Older brother liked the big guns... He had a 300 Mag... that was an anti-tank round I think... shell looked like a 12 ga shell with a 30 cal bullet stuck on the end... geez... He also had a couple Weatherbys... Very nice guns... and very nicely expensive too if I recall.... I just had my plain old 12 ga in 2 2/3 shell.... back when everyone was running to buy and brag on the 3 and 3 1/2 mag shells.... I put just as much if not more meat in the freezer as they did...lol.. They would come out with their 300 mag with scope big enough you could see a fly at a thousand yards... me with my simple open sight 30-30..... lol.... bigger isnt always better... lol

You can say that again brother. There's a lot to say for bullet placement and getting close. Of course, that isn't to say "bring enough gun" isn't true also but the key word is 'enough'.

When I was a young man I hunted birds and never had a problem getting my limit with a standard 12. I never did hunt big game but have known many who did as my career was in natural resource management and all the really good hunters I knew just used the standard guns: .30 - 06, .270 or maybe .308

I've eaten a lot of game taken with those calibers. I don't remember anybody using wildcats or really heavy guns or huge scopes. They just knew how to hunt and got within range.

 

[E_just_E]

I found this while metal detecting in the Mullica River, NJ.

Right by Wharton State Forest? There was no American Civil War activity in that part of the world... Someone was hunting deer with a shotgun probably. Lots of that in that area.

 

[Patrick H]

This discussion of big shotgun gauges and ammo tickles me. I'm not a fan of big bore shotguns, nor of long shells. I could tell some funny stories about big shotgun bores, but I won't. We are venturing far off topic here, but I think our friend and original poster probably has a shotgun slug--a very nice one. I thank the experts here for identifying it.

 

[jerseyjim]

Thank all of you for your information. I received more information from this site then all the rest put together. I have yet had the time to purchase a caliper to get the exact messurment, when I do I will post it.

I'm no expert on antique shotgun slugs myself, but I am a bit of a combat shotgun expert, so hopefully some of my useless knowledge will help you.

A 12 gauge shotgun with a cylinder bore is usually .729 caliber. A 10 gauge is .77 caliber A slug for a shotgun has to fit inside the shell, and has to compensate for the reduction of barrel size in shotguns with different chokes, so they're usually smaller than the bore diameter, usually running about .69 caliber for 12 gauge slugs.

If the projectile you found is 3/4", that makes it a .75 caliber round. It's possible that it is a 10 gauge slug, as that's about the size of one. I don't think it would be a 12 gauge. It's probably very old then, just going off of my own theory that 10 gauge was more popular than 12 gauge in the mid to late 1800's, and nobody really plays around with the big 10's anymore.

Hope this helps.

I tried to fit the slug in the barrel of my 12 gauge shotgun. I only got the tip in. I don't think it would fit in a ten gauge.
Jim

 

[jerseyjim]

E-just-E mentioned Wharton State Forest. That is the exact area in which I found it. The property that I was on is connected to the forest. My friend who owns the house ,told me they made cannon balls a few houses down from where we were.