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Fighting for Slavery?

Discussion in 'Civil War History - Secession and Politics' started by Drew, Feb 18, 2013.

  1. Silverfox

    Silverfox Sergeant

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    Agree---But was wondering about Southern Unionists in Eastern Tenn. and Western N.C. and some other areas of the South that had some who remained loyal to the Union---I thought maybe after the war there could have been some sort of compensation especially for those who fought for the Union. Seems only DC got any compensation.
     

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  3. ole

    ole Brev. Brig. Gen'l Retired Moderator

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    Working off memory here, but we have a member whose ancestor was a Unionist in SW Tennessee. Of course, he lost everything. But he applied for reparations and, after a long time, received a payment, but nothing for the slaves.
     
  4. Drew

    Drew Captain

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    No worries - I didn't mean to bring this argument on, was just struck by the remembrence of an old man as to why he went to war. My own dad is 85 and clinging to life, unfortunately, but was always honest with us as to why he enlisted in the U.S. Navy at 17 during WWII (grand dad signed him in). He holds his hands out, shrugs and says, "I did it because everyone else did it!" I trust no one here will argue with his decision or condemn the political leadership under which he fought. If you do, you are in the wrong forum, please go away. But a teenager is a teenager. They have no idea what they do, German, American, Japanese, Confederate or Union.

    I agree with Mr. Winkler insofar as we ought to stop using slavery as a salve to be applied to every contemporary Union war wound. The North won (thank Goodness), we know that, but the slavery issue does not diminish the remarkable performance of the barefoot raggamuffins against the odds. They still teach this epoch at War College, everywhere. Just my opinion.
     
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  5. Silverfox

    Silverfox Sergeant

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    StateWhite soldiers serving in the Union Army
    Alabama 3,000
    Arkansas 10,000
    Florida 3,500
    Georgia 400
    Louisiana 7,000
    Mississippi 545
    North Carolina 25,000
    Tennessee 42,000
    Texas 2,200
    Virginia and West Virginia 22,000[5]


    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Southern_Unionist

    I was curious as to how many of the above fought for the Union and then basically lost it all anyway----Good to know that some of these folks received something for their efforts. The numbers above surprised me----But then I am from Georgia and we had the lowest number.
     
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  6. Silverfox

    Silverfox Sergeant

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    Sixty Eight years ago we were at Iwo ----My wife's uncle graduated June of 1944----Captain of the football team----Joined the Marines----My father in law pulled he into the Navy line and he would not stay----KIA on March 6, 1945. He was brought home in 1947 (they were given a choice)---We are still looking after his grave---He was a very brave young man and at nineteen gave his all. Gone but not forgotten----Just like those raggamuffins you mentioned above.
     
  7. CMWinkler

    CMWinkler Colonel Forum Host Retired Moderator

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    May he rest in peace. My uncle was at Iwo, another at Okinawa and my father on Guam. All came home. We were very lucky.
     
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  8. Drew

    Drew Captain

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    Here, here. My dad was at Okinawa but said, "we were not allowed off the ship, which was good, because a lot of the marines who were got killed."

    May your wife's uncle RIP, Silverfox.
     
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  9. Ellsworth avenger

    Ellsworth avenger Sergeant Major

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    If like the State of Vermont slavery had been outlawed from the start this would be a mute question.
     
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  10. unionblue

    unionblue Brev. Brig. Gen'l Member of the Year

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    "We are sometimes asked in the name of patriotism to forget the merits of this fearful struggle, and to remember with equal admiration those who struck at the nation's life, and those who struck to save it--those who fought for slavery and those who fought for liberty and justice. I am no minister of malice..., I would not repel the repentant, but...may my tongue cleave to the roof of my mouth if I forget the difference between the parties to that...bloody conflict."

    -- Frederick Douglass, Address at the grave of the Unknown Dead, Arlington, Virginia, May 30, 1871.
     
  11. unionblue

    unionblue Brev. Brig. Gen'l Member of the Year

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    "It is very certain that the immediate cause of the political agitation which culminated in the dissolution of the Union was the institution of slavery. There can be no doubt that the Southern people [were] fighting to maintain slavery or prevent its overthrow by the hands of their enemies."

    --General Robert E. Lee's aide-de-camp, Colonel Charles Marshall, from his memiors.
     
  12. unionblue

    unionblue Brev. Brig. Gen'l Member of the Year

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    "It should be constantly kept in view, through all the bloody phases and terrible epochs of this relentless war, that slavery was the caus beli, that the principle of State Sovereignty, and its sequence, the right of secession, were important to the South principally, or solely, as the armor that encased her peculiar institution--and that every life that has been lost in this struggle was an offering upon the altar of African Slavery."

    --Submitted by writer "Q" in the Macon Telegraph, January 6, 1865.
     
  13. unionblue

    unionblue Brev. Brig. Gen'l Member of the Year

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    "...any man who pretends to believe that this is not a war for the emancipation of the blacks...is either a fool or liar."

    --From The Vidette, November 2, 1862, the unit newspaper of Morgan's Confederate Brigade.

    "For it and its perpetuation we commenced and have kept at war."

    --Memphis Appeal, quoted in the Macon Telegraph and Confederate, October 31, 1864.

    "To talk of maintaining our independence while we abolish slavery is simply to talk folly."

    --Charleston Courier, January 24, 1865.

    "What was the reason that induced Georgia to take the step of secession? This reason may be summed up in one single proposition. It was a conviction, a deep conviction on the part of Georgia, that a separation from the North - was the only thing that could prevent the abolition of her slavery."

    --Henry Benning of Georgia.

    "When I say that this rebellion has its source and life in slavery, I only repeat a simple truism."

    --George W. Julian, US Congressman, in a speech to the House of Representatives, January 14, 1862.

    "The South went to war on account of slavery...South Carolina went to war as she said in her secession proclamation, because slavery would not be secure under Lincoln...don't you think South Carolina ought to know why it went to war?"

    --John Singleton Mosby.
     
  14. trice

    trice Lt. Colonel

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    One of the things to notice in this list is that the states with a strong, early Union presence produced the most Unionist soldiers. It is really hard for someone from Alabama, Georgia, Mississippi or Texas to decide to join the Union Army when there aren't nice quiet areas with Union recruiting agents nearby -- and when they have to worry that their families will suffer if they do go off to join the Union.

    Tennessee and North Carolina had sizable territory held by the Union from early 1862. So did Louisiana and Arkansas. Even Florida had Union presence a long time. Parts of Virginia were held by the Union from 1861. Access to Union posts and protection appear to have played a strong part in Union recruiting.

    Tim
     
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  15. trice

    trice Lt. Colonel

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    My Dad is now 95. He was in the 96th Division at Leyte and Okinawa. They did let him off the ship (landed April 1 -- Easter Sunday, April Fool's Day) and he was still there at the end (nearby when Lt. General Buckner -- 1oth Army commander, June 18 -- and Brig. General Easley -- 96th Division, 2nd-in-command, June 19 -- were both killed).

    Drew, your Dad was right. Okinawa was horrible for anyone who was there. Tenth Army took 65,631 casualties during the campaign, with 34,736 being suffered by XXIV Corps (the Army), 26,724 by III Amphibious Corps (the Marines) and the rest in staff, support and attached units. Army divisions were smaller than Marine divisions, but there were more Army divisions involved.


    My Dad was often on the flank with the Marines during the campaign. Got along well enough they shared some captured sake once. Still bugged by Iwo Jima, though: Iwo was so bloody and went so far past the original estimates that large amounts of ammo were diverted from the Okinawa preparations, both for naval bombardment and small arms, creating some shortages at Okinawa.

    I am currently reading The Last Full Measure: How Soldiers Die in Battle by Michael Stephenson. War has always been horrible. Times change, weapons change, tactics and attitudes change. War remains immutably horrible.

    Tim
     
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  16. CMWinkler

    CMWinkler Colonel Forum Host Retired Moderator

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    On this, we can agree completely. May God bless your father. You're lucky to still have him. I miss mine every day.
     
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  17. ForeverFree

    ForeverFree Major

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    Fair enough.
     
  18. ForeverFree

    ForeverFree Major

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    Technically, the highlighted portion is not correct. My understanding is that compensation was to be given for slaves who enlisted with the Union army in DE, MD, MO, and KY. Enlistment manumitted the slave, and laws were passed which manumitted the family of the freedmen.

    Now - how many slaveowners in the Border States were compensated for their loss, and how much did they get? I have no idea. I can tell you that almost 42,000 colored troops enlisted in total from DE, MD, MO, KY, and WV, and I have no doubt that the majority of them were former slaves.

    - Alan
     
  19. Silverfox

    Silverfox Sergeant

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    Forever Free-- I do not know any details of the DC deal---only what you folks have told me. Union Blue--Most of your quotes are leadership---Politicians and Officer Corps---I agree that slavery was a top cause among this group---Their economic well being was at stake---I just do not agree it was the only reason. Two out three Southerners did not own slaves--The barefoot confederate private did not endure all the suffering for slavery only, in my opinion---So what else did he fight for----And fight with such dedication?
     
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  20. jgoodguy

    jgoodguy Brev. Brig. Gen'l Forum Host Retired Moderator

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    Then there were folks who just hid out from the conscription parties or made some areas just too hot to recruit from.
     
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  21. Silverfox

    Silverfox Sergeant

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    Trice--I agree with you about Federal presence making it easier---Of course, three hundred in gold could motivate someone also. Coastal areas seemed to be prevalent in Federal occupation. Of course, if you joined the Federal Army you might want to go west after the war.
     

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