Enfield 53 find

[JackADriscoll]

Hello friends. I was out the other day and picked this Enfield up for 200.00. I think it's awesome and I just wanted to show it off. They were selling it as a replica and if it is then it's the most spot on replica I ever saw. Thoughts?

 

[Grayrock Volunteer]

Well done. It is definitely an original. It is a type II rifle-musket (cut down to rifle length) rather than the more commonly encountered type III, and looks to be Belgian made for the British military.


*edited: I missed the full length pic. Maybe on my phone it was cropped. Regardless, it's a nice full length P53 type II.

 

[RSMorris]

Wow, would be proud to have it..

 

[nc native]

That's a steal at $ 200.00!

 

[Tanglewood]

Appears to be full length with all three bands, including the correct wide front band. The numbered ramrod is neat, matches the stamped butt plate number. Also it is marked as surplus with the opposing broad arrows.

 

[UCVRelics]

Very Nice pickup and a steal at $200. The VR under the crown, which is for Victoria' Reign say it was not likely an import to the US during the CW.

 

[JackADriscoll]

Very Nice pickup and a steal at $200. The VR under the crown, which is for Victoria' Reign say it was not likely an import to the US during the CW.

I did not believe it was. It's curious how it ended up here. I wish I could know it's history.

 

[bayonet]

I did not believe it was. It's curious how it ended up here. I wish I could know it's history.

American Soldiers/Sailors/Airmen serving in both World Wars (mainly WW2) brought back tons of stuff from overseas. Remember Americans GIs were paid a lot more than British GIs. Brits would sell anything they could to GIs for good yankee dollars. Could be how it reached our shores.

 

[Rusk County Avengers]

Heck of a find at that price!

Type 2's that ain't a Nepalese one are rare birds. Not being an expert, I would postulate that it could've been brought over in the CW. Type 2's like Type 1's were no longer issue weapons and could've been surplus, thus would have the "V.R." cypher. Its just the Type 3's and others sent over not having it I think.

Plus, stop me if I'm wrong someone, but that style of year stamp is an indicator of Belgian manufacture is it not? It's what I've always heard but never confirmed or not.

 

[bayonet]

Heck of a find at that price!

Type 2's that ain't a Nepalese one are rare birds. Not being an expert, I would postulate that it could've been brought over in the CW. Type 2's like Type 1's were no longer issue weapons and could've been surplus, thus would have the "V.R." cypher. Its just the Type 3's and others sent over not having it I think.

Plus, stop me if I'm wrong someone, but that style of year stamp is an indicator of Belgian manufacture is it not? It's what I've always heard but never confirmed or not.

Over and over again on this website and other places it's been said Enfield Rifles with the VR stamp on the lock plate never made it over here during our Civil War. Let's not confuse matters here unless you have definite proof.

 

[Story]

I did not believe it was. It's curious how it ended up here. I wish I could know it's history.

Arms importer Bannerman would be my first suspect. LIKE this post and I'll go look for their 1940 catalog, might still be in there.

 

[Rusk County Avengers]

Over and over again on this website and other places it's been said Enfield Rifles with the VR stamp on the lock plate never made it over here during our Civil War. Let's not confuse matters here unless you have definite proof.

Yeah, there's no need for you to be testy about it, your liable to rile me up. Type 1 Enfields, Type 2's sent over were surplus from Britain, taken out of the ditch and weather at the Tower, as were older P1842's, Brunswicks, and so on. I wouldn't be surprised if a V.R. Cypher here and there was not removed. Besides, this gun I speculate could be Belgian manufacture, folks less likely to care. With all these guns the name of the game was to make a buck.

Just because folks say it over and over doesn't make it true. One should never say never as there's always new discoveries and exceptions to the rule.

 

[bayonet]

Yeah, there's no need for you to be testy about it, your liable to rile me up. Type 1 Enfields, Type 2's sent over were surplus from Britain, taken out of the ditch and weather at the Tower, as were older P1842's, Brunswicks, and so on. I wouldn't be surprised if a V.R. Cypher here and there was not removed. Besides, this gun I speculate could be Belgian manufacture, folks less likely to care. With all these guns the name of the game was to make a buck.

Just because folks say it over and over doesn't make it true. One should never say never as there's always new discoveries and exceptions to the rule.

Not getting testy just stating the FACTS. Now don't get all "rile me up". Go pop open a cold beer and relax in a hot tub to calm yourself.

 

[RSMorris]

Not getting testy just stating the FACTS. Now don't get all "rile me up". Go pop open a cold beer and relax in a hot tub to calm yourself.

Can you clarify something, are you saying no VR marked British muskets made it here for the war or just no Enfield VR marked muskets were here for the war?

 

[UCVRelics]

Yeah, there's no need for you to be testy about it, your liable to rile me up.

Go pop open a cold beer and relax in a hot tub to calm yourself.

Both of y'all need to chill. Looks like a question for or resident Enfield expert. @Craig L Barry. I can say that some early war Enfields did have a VR but Craig can break it down better than I can.

 

[bayonet]

Can you clarify something, are you saying no VR marked British muskets made it here for the war or just no Enfield VR marked muskets were here for the war?

I'm confused here for a moment, true or not were not all British Rifle/Muskets imported here for the ACW of the Enfield type?

 

[bayonet]

Both of y'all need to chill. Looks like a question for or resident Enfield expert. @Craig L Barry. I can say that some early war Enfields did have a VR but Craig can break it down better than I can.

I'm quite chill, just had a cold made in America Yuengling. Just stating what I have seen over and over again on this website that Enfields with that VR on the lock plate were not imported here into America during the Civil War. I think I'll pop another one then go jump in my Condos hot tub. Cheers Gentlemen

 

[RSMorris]

I'm confused here for a moment, true or not were not all British Rifle/Muskets imported here for the ACW of the Enfield type?

I don't know, that is what I am asking. Is a British Pattern 1853 an Enfield? In the book about the Wray collection in Atlanta are several pics of British Pattern 1853's with the VR marking that were used by the Confederacy in the war.

 

[UCVRelics]

I don't know, that is what I am asking. Is a British Pattern 1853 an Enfield? In the book about the Wray collection in Atlanta are several pics of British Pattern 1853's with the VR marking that were used by the Confederacy in the war.

The British Pattern 1853 also known as the P53 was an Enfield. There were a small amount that got in the US in the early parts of the war. The VR is the queens mark and was mostly seen for British Army issued weapons.

 

[bayonet]

I don't know, that is what I am asking. Is a British Pattern 1853 an Enfield? In the book about the Wray collection in Atlanta are several pics of British Pattern 1853's with the VR marking that were used by the Confederacy in the war.

Let's wait for Mr. Barry to reply. Am I wrong that many times I've seen here on CivilWarTalk that the VR lock plate stamp is an indication that it was not here or imported during the ACW?