Edward Johnson over Isaac R. Trimble?

[Wizard of Cozz]

It was par for the course for Cadmus Wilcox who was overlooked in the Confederate command hierarchy. Wilcox was a hard fighting brigade commander who got a promotion to division command in August 1863 and proved to be competent in that role. Wilcox is often overshadowed in reputation and promotion by many less able generals in the Army of Northern Virginia. He deserved a division command more than Pickett who is one example of someone who was promoted before him. A good idea would have been to transfer him to the Army of the Tennessee where his talents could have done more good and where good leaders were needed. He probably would have made a decent corps commander if given the chance there.

Longstreet was protective of Pickett with their relationship going back to Chapultapec.

 

[Wizard of Cozz]

Thought Trimble and 'Allegheny' Johnson both proved to be solid brigade commanders in the field. However, in their respective command roles, both men were plagued by incapacity due to injury and/or illness for extended periods at various times.

On paper, as a M-G, Trimble had seniority of appointment over Johnson for division command – Trimble was appointed on Jan. 17, '63; Johnson on Feb. 28, '63.

Johnson's assignment to division command on May 8, '63 (to replace Colston in temporary command, following Chancellorsville) seems largely due to Jackson's recommendation, with which Lee was entirely in agreement. (Jackson had been impressed with Johnson's distinguishing performance at McDowell, and he was not enamored with Trimble as a disciplinarian). It also appears that recurring illness suffered by Trimble at this time may also have been a factor in Lee's decision to overlook him for continuing division command. (As it eventuated, Johnson's assignment to division command, proved to be a sound choice over the later course of the war).

Thought Johnson's elevation over the ambitious Trimble here also illustrates another fact that occurs with such promotions in the senior ranks. No matter whether or not any such promotion is sound or justified, there will always be fellow senior commanders (especially those who missed out) who remain critical of, or feel aggrieved by, the decision.

I wouldn't say Trimble was any more ambitious than any of the other options. Pender, Heth, Trimble, Wilcox, all wanted division command within the Army. Hood, Anderson, and McLaws were both aggrieved for not getting corps command. I still stand by Jojson over Trimble was nothing more than Trimble wasn't available when the decision needed to be made.

 

[Wizard of Cozz]

Lee was at least better than, say, Bragg, who definitely made at least three times as many promotions NOT by seniority in the AoT.

The organizational decisions for the AoT was a sad story.

 

[Nathan Stuart]

Lee was at least better than, say, Bragg, who definitely made at least three times as many promotions NOT by seniority in the AoT.

Am in no way critical of Lee here, for agreeing to such an assignment in these circumstances.

 

[Nathan Stuart]

The organizational decisions for the AoT was a sad story.

Agree. And one can add to that the 'Davis factor' in these decisions.

 

[Wizard of Cozz]

Agree. And one can add to that the 'Davis factor'

Lee, who also got frustrated with Davis (see the missing brigades fiasco before Gettysburg), was always much more tactful both with men in his command he was removing amd how to sell it to Davis.

 

[J. Stanley]

Thanks for all the discussion! I have a few questions to follow up on this:

1) How did the rank and file and other generals feel about Edward Johnson? He was an outsider that suddenly got command of the Stonewall Division. IIRC soldiers didn't have any affection for Old Clubby and I haven't seen any interactions between him and other generals.

2) The talk on Cadmus Wilcox is interesting. Is there any particular reason his seniority was ignored? Wilcox did pretty well at Salem Church, were Rodes, Pender and Heth so good to overshadow it?

 

[121st PA Vols]

I have a special regard for the Tigers who at the battle of Gettysburg attacked over the ground that would become my home (Hillcrest Place) and the ground of the high school football field where far less lethal tho violent battles were fought against our rivals.
About their discipline, you've got to wonder how much more discipline they or any unit might need had they the fighting spirit and qualities of these Tigers. Ease up Stonewall !
nc native, amen on Wilcox!

 

[sunday silence]

I had another question about seniority in general. It seems most of them are arguing that by seniority they should get promoted. But taken to its logical extreme then the pecking order should have originated with when they made captain or major say; and then it would never ever change if seniority was strictly followed. So doesnt there have to be some leeway when considering seniority? So when do they use seniority and when dont they? Is it just totally discretionary?

 

[Stryker65]

I had another question about seniority in general. It seems most of them are arguing that by seniority they should get promoted. But taken to its logical extreme then the pecking order should have originated with when they made captain or major say; and then it would never ever change if seniority was strictly followed. So doesnt there have to be some leeway when considering seniority? So when do they use seniority and when dont they? Is it just totally discretionary?

It changes every time someone's promoted. Hypothetical time:
- Person A: Appointed captain 1/1/62
- Person B: Appointed captain 1/2/62
Captain A is senior to Captain B in this case, but let's throw a promotion in there:
- Captain A: Appointed major 4/1/62
- Captain B: Appointed colonel 1/3/62
In this case, even though Captain B received his captaincy after Person A, the fact that he's still a colonel means that he's now senior to Captain B.

Throwing Regulars in there really messes stuff up. Another hypothetical:
- Person A: Appointed colonel 1/1/62, BUT has been a Regular Army captain since 1/1/60
- Person B: Appointed colonel 1/1/62
Even though they have the exact same date of appointment, by virtue of Person A's Regular Army rank, Colonel A is senior.

In relation to your question, though, even if both started as captains in the same regiment, only one could be promoted to major, since there's only one major-ship per (infantry) regiment (in that case, it's just whoever was first on the list). Then, the captain who became a major would automatically be senior, when in reality it was just name placement that got him the promotion.

 

[Wizard of Cozz]

Thanks for all the discussion! I have a few questions to follow up on this:

1) How did the rank and file and other generals feel about Edward Johnson? He was an outsider that suddenly got command of the Stonewall Division. IIRC soldiers didn't have any affection for Old Clubby and I haven't seen any interactions between him and other generals.

Johnson was always well thought of. He was a safe choice to lead the Stonewall division. He'd fought with Stonewall in the Valley, and so wasn't a complete outsider. It was just his foot injury took so long to heal.

2) The talk on Cadmus Wilcox is interesting. Is there any particular reason his seniority was ignored? Wilcox did pretty well at Salem Church, were Rodes, Pender and Heth so good to overshadow it?

It was ingnored just for the simple fact that Lee chose Heth and Pender. One thing Lee does though is he never places a man under a guy that he promoted over him. So for instance, while Wilcox is the senior to Heth and Pender, he is serving in Anderson's division, so is serving under someone he can't complain about. Heth for instance gets moved out of the division so that he's not the senior brigadier so that Pender can take the division. If that makes sense.

 

[danny]

I have a special regard for the Tigers who at the battle of Gettysburg attacked over the ground that would become my home (Hillcrest Place) and the ground of the high school football field where far less lethal tho violent battles were fought against our rivals.
About their discipline, you've got to wonder how much more discipline they or any unit might need had they the fighting spirit and qualities of these Tigers. Ease up Stonewall !
nc native, amen on Wilcox!

It should be noted that when Taylor first reported to Jackson in the valley, Jackson was impressed by the lack of stragglers in Taylor's brigade.
Straggling was a big issue with Jackson [and others at well].
Just seems to be at odds with the comments of Jackson thinking they were ill disciplined.