Edward Johnson over Isaac R. Trimble?

[J. Stanley]

After doing a re-read of some Gettysburg books, I had a sudden realization: why did Lee think it wise to permanently replace Isaac R. Trimble with Edward Johnson?

Edward Johnson is not bad by any means but it seems odd to think his record justifies being catapulted into division command of Jackson's old division. In 1861-62, he commanded the Army of the Northwest- a grandiose name for a brigade-sized unit at the Allegheny Mountains. He then joined Stonewall Jackson for the Battle of McDowell, where he was badly wounded in the ankle. Fast forward a year, Edward Johnson is asked to command Jackson's old division. A man who has only brigade-level experience, has never served in the Army of Northern Virginia and has been out of action for an entire year.

Now, Stonewall Jackson did ask for Johnson in February as a division commander and Lee seemed to have been ok with the idea. There was at the time a vacancy in D.H. Hill's old division. By May, Robert E. Rodes got D.H. Hill's division and Edward Johnson got Jackson's old division, which was supposed to be Trimble's command.

Now where was Isaac Trimble? Trimble had already distinguished himself as a fighter in the Valley, the Peninsula and Second Manassas, but a bullet in the last battle knocked him out. He was finally able to stir in February 1863 before his health worsened with a bad cold. He only recovered to return to the army in June mid-campaign.

Now, of course, you could say Edward Johnson got the command because he was there and Trimble was not, which is fair. But it seems a leap for Lee to appoint someone so inexperienced as division commander. Was there no one else to temporarily command the division?

Did Trimble's age and personality influence this decision? Trimble was very old, being older than Lee by some 4 years! He was also didn't know how to shut up and keep his opinions to himself.

As it was, Trimble's military career ended with his wounding in Pickett's Charge and Johnson continued to command the division until its destruction in Spotsylvania Court House. If anyone has additional insight, I would like to know more!

 

[rpkennedy]

Lee was also familiar with Johnson since Johnson commanded the 12th Georgia under Lee in western Virginia in 1861. That may have led to Lee taking Jackson's advice and keeping Johnson as division commander.

Ryan

 

[Wizard of Cozz]

After doing a re-read of some Gettysburg books, I had a sudden realization: why did Lee think it wise to permanently replace Isaac R. Trimble with Edward Johnson?

Edward Johnson is not bad by any means but it seems odd to think his record justifies being catapulted into division command of Jackson's old division. In 1861-62, he commanded the Army of the Northwest- a grandiose name for a brigade-sized unit at the Allegheny Mountains. He then joined Stonewall Jackson for the Battle of McDowell, where he was badly wounded in the ankle. Fast forward a year, Edward Johnson is asked to command Jackson's old division. A man who has only brigade-level experience, has never served in the Army of Northern Virginia and has been out of action for an entire year.

Now, Stonewall Jackson did ask for Johnson in February as a division commander and Lee seemed to have been ok with the idea. There was at the time a vacancy in D.H. Hill's old division. By May, Robert E. Rodes got D.H. Hill's division and Edward Johnson got Jackson's old division, which was supposed to be Trimble's command.

Now where was Isaac Trimble? Trimble had already distinguished himself as a fighter in the Valley, the Peninsula and Second Manassas, but a bullet in the last battle knocked him out. He was finally able to stir in February 1863 before his health worsened with a bad cold. He only recovered to return to the army in June mid-campaign.

Now, of course, you could say Edward Johnson got the command because he was there and Trimble was not, which is fair. But it seems a leap for Lee to appoint someone so inexperienced as division commander. Was there no one else to temporarily command the division?

Did Trimble's age and personality influence this decision? Trimble was very old, being older than Lee by some 4 years! He was also didn't know how to shut up and keep his opinions to himself.

As it was, Trimble's military career ended with his wounding in Pickett's Charge and Johnson continued to command the division until its destruction in Spotsylvania Court House. If anyone has additional insight, I would like to know more!

He could of given Johnson Nicholls brigade as Nichols was done for the war and then let Johnson temporarily command the division until Trimble was ready. That makes alot of sense. Or since Johnson is a Virginia give him command of Fields brigade under Brockenbrough, and give Walker temporary command. Only issue is if Johnson has brigadier seniority over Heth.

 

[rpkennedy]

He could of given Johnson Nicholls brigade as Nichols was done for the war and then let Johnson temporarily command the division until Trimble was ready. That makes alot of sense. Or since Johnson is a Virginia give him command of Fields brigade under Brockenbrough, and give Walker temporary command. Only issue is if Johnson has brigadier seniority over Heth.

He did. Johnson was 12/9/61, Heth was 1/6/62. Interestingly, Trimble ranked both Johnson and Heth as major generals.

Ryan

 

[Wizard of Cozz]

He did. Johnson was 12/9/61, Heth was 1/6/62. Interestingly, Trimble ranked both Johnson and Heth as major generals.

Ryan

Most likely then Jonson got promoted cause Lee wanted to promote Heth. Lee was very careful with seniority, especially among West Point graduates. My understanding is that Lee wanted Pender to take the "Light Division, " and sp transferred Heth's brigade out of the Division so as to make Pender senior brigadier. He also liked Heth and so promoted Heth but Johnskn has seniority over Heth in the Army. So Johnson gets promoted as well. Odd man out was Wilcox who almost quit the army over the ordeal.

 

[rpkennedy]

Most likely then Jonson got promoted cause Lee wanted to promote Heth. Lee was very careful with seniority, especially among West Point graduates. My understanding is that Lee wanted Pender to take the "Light Division, " and sp transferred Heth's brigade out of the Division so as to make Pender senior brigadier. He also liked Heth and so promoted Heth but Johnskn has seniority over Heth in the Army. So Johnson gets promoted as well. Odd man out was Wilcox who almost quit the army over the ordeal.

Correct. Wilcox had seniority over all of them as a brigadier general (10/21/61). And he had commanded ad hoc divisions previously. I can imagine that his ego may have been pretty bruised over the issue.

Ryan

 

[Wizard of Cozz]

Correct. Wilcox had seniority over all of them as a brigadier general (10/21/61). And he had commanded ad hoc divisions previously. I can imagine that his ego may have been pretty bruised over the issue.

Ryan

Wilcox obviously gets Penders division after Pender's death. We're there any West Pointers left at Brigadier command after this? Richard Garnett dies at Gettysburg.

Just looked it up. Others included George Steaurt, John M. Jones, Junius Daniel, and Ramsuer, Ramsueur. I need to look at commission dates. But Ramsuer will get a division and Daniel's was bring considered for it and Jones gets killed, so Steuart is only one never really considered for promotion.

 

[rpkennedy]

Steuart: 3/11/62
Daniel: 9/15/62
Ramseur: 11/1/62
Jones: 5/16/63

Ryan

 

[Stryker65]

Wasn't Trimble considered to be a bit of a Richard Taylor "evil fellow", as Jackson might say? That could account for why Jackson didn't really want him back after Second Manassas. He sure didn't want Taylor back...

 

[Wizard of Cozz]

Wasn't Trimble considered to be a bit of a Richard Taylor "evil fellow", as Jackson might say? That could account for why Jackson didn't really want him back after Second Manassas. He sure didn't want Taylor back...

I never heard Jackson had issue with Taylor or Trimble? Do you have source? I thought Taylor left for health reasons..

 

[rpkennedy]

I also wonder how much input Ewell had in the decision after Jackson's death. Trimble had been a brigade commander under Ewell and would have been pretty familiar with him. And the fact that he seems to have preferred someone other than Trimble in command would indicate his feelings on the matter.

Ryan

 

[Stryker65]

I never heard Jackson had issue with Taylor or Trimble? Do you have source? I thought Taylor left for health reasons..

Jackson never had any major issues in that sense with Taylor, he just didn't like how much Taylor would swear (although that was the only way the Louisiana Tigers could be controllled)...

 

[rpkennedy]

Jackson never had any major issues in that sense with Taylor, he just didn't like how much Taylor would swear (although that was the only way the Louisiana Tigers could be controllled)...

IIRC, he also wasn't happy with Taylor about the discipline (or lack thereof) of his Louisianans. For Jackon, poor discipline was a cardinal sin.

Ryan

 

[Wizard of Cozz]

I also wonder how much input Ewell had in the decision after Jackson's death. Trimble had been a brigade commander under Ewell and would have been pretty familiar with him. And the fact that he seems to have preferred someone other than Trimble in command would indicate his feelings on the matter.

Ryan

I don't think Trimble didn't get it cause of any of those factors. I don't think Lee and the army knew how long he'd be out. Sears and Bowden & Ward both state that Lee originally planned to give the division to Trimble. It was why he was promoted to Major General, BUT he wasn't healthy and as I said above there was no timetable on his return so I thun they just promoted Johnson and gave it ot him. If/when Trimble came back, he'd receive next open division.

 

[rpkennedy]

I don't think Trimble didn't get it cause of any of those factors. I don't think Lee and the army knew how long he'd be out. Sears and Bowden & Ward both state that Lee originally planned to give the division to Trimble. It was why he was promoted to Major General, BUT he wasn't healthy and as I said above there was no timetable on his return so I thun they just promoted Johnson and gave it ot him. If/when Trimble came back, he'd receive next open division.

I also believe that Lee summoned Johnson to take over command after Chancellorsville and the relief of Raleigh Colston. This would be an odd move unless Lee didn't believe that Trimble was going to be ready for the upcoming campaign (understandably since Trimble had to catch up to the army while it marched north).

Ryan

 

[nc native]

Correct. Wilcox had seniority over all of them as a brigadier general (10/21/61). And he had commanded ad hoc divisions previously. I can imagine that his ego may have been pretty bruised over the issue.

Ryan

It was par for the course for Cadmus Wilcox who was overlooked in the Confederate command hierarchy. Wilcox was a hard fighting brigade commander who got a promotion to division command in August 1863 and proved to be competent in that role. Wilcox is often overshadowed in reputation and promotion by many less able generals in the Army of Northern Virginia. He deserved a division command more than Pickett who is one example of someone who was promoted before him. A good idea would have been to transfer him to the Army of the Tennessee where his talents could have done more good and where good leaders were needed. He probably would have made a decent corps commander if given the chance there.

 

[Stryker65]

IIRC, he also wasn't happy with Taylor about the discipline (or lack thereof) of his Louisianans. For Jackon, poor discipline was a cardinal sin.

Ryan

I think that was definitely quite a paradox, being that the Tigers were some of the best fighters in the army, but had some of the worst discipline in the army.

 

[Jamieva]

It was par for the course for Cadmus Wilcox who was overlooked in the Confederate command hierarchy. Wilcox was a hard fighting brigade commander who got a promotion to division command in August 1863 and proved to be competent in that role. Wilcox is often overshadowed in reputation and promotion by many less able generals in the Army of Northern Virginia. He deserved a division command more than Pickett who is one example of someone who was promoted before him. A good idea would have been to transfer him to the Army of the Tennessee where his talents could have done more good and where good leaders were needed. He probably would have made a decent corps commander if given the chance there.

For some reason Longstreet had a soft spot for o Pickett.

 

[Nathan Stuart]

Thought Trimble and 'Allegheny' Johnson both proved to be solid brigade commanders in the field. However, in their respective command roles, both men were plagued by incapacity due to injury and/or illness for extended periods at various times.

On paper, as a M-G, Trimble had seniority of appointment over Johnson for division command – Trimble was appointed on Jan. 17, '63; Johnson on Feb. 28, '63.

Johnson's assignment to division command on May 8, '63 (to replace Colston in temporary command, following Chancellorsville) seems largely due to Jackson's recommendation, with which Lee was entirely in agreement. (Jackson had been impressed with Johnson's distinguishing performance at McDowell, and he was not enamored with Trimble as a disciplinarian). It also appears that recurring illness suffered by Trimble at this time may also have been a factor in Lee's decision to overlook him for continuing division command. (As it eventuated, Johnson's assignment to division command, proved to be a sound choice over the later course of the war).

Thought Johnson's elevation over the ambitious Trimble here also illustrates another fact that occurs with such promotions in the senior ranks. No matter whether or not any such promotion is sound or justified, there will always be fellow senior commanders (especially those who missed out) who remain critical of, or feel aggrieved by, the decision.

 

[Stryker65]

Thought Johnson's elevation over the ambitious Trimble here also illustrates another fact that occurs with such promotions in the senior ranks. No matter whether or not any such promotion is sound or justified, there will always be fellow senior commanders (especially those who missed out) who remain critical of, or feel aggrieved by, the decision.

Lee was at least better than, say, Bragg, who definitely made at least three times as many promotions NOT by seniority in the AoT.