What is this? Eagle Head Sword Barn Finds

[StanleySmithIII]

 

[James N.]

Those are beautiful specimens and examples! They both probably date from the 1830's or a little later; I think somewhere long ago I saw one similar to the one at the left attributed to the Ames Sword Company of Chicopee, Mass. The other one is based on French smallswords of ca. 1800 - 1820's and although having an eagle head for the pommel, the design on the counterguard suggests other than U.S. The design appears to be a specific nationalistic coat-of-arms, possibly Spanish with the castles of Castile and lions of Leon. The patina of the hilts should probably be left alone; in other words, don't try to polish them. What are the blades like?

Welcome to the forums!

 

[StanleySmithIII]

The one with the clam shell has a pretty rough blade. The other is not too bad.

 

[StanleySmithIII]

Thank you for your input. I do not plan to do any polishing.

 

[Old Soldier]

The black sword has the coat of arms of Castile and Leon (Spain) and the two 'supporters' are the Pillars of Hercules (Straits of Gibraltar). It has an inset device which I can't easily trace but MAY be three Fler-de-Lys which also appears on Spanish flags.. Instead of a crown surmounting it, it has a fouled anchor (St Clement - patron saint of Mariners) surrounded by what could be sails/masts. It sits on a figure which could be a boat with two 'winds' - a head blowing a 'puff' - at each end.

So? How about a naval or marine infantry sword from Spain or a Spanish territory - Philippines would be a good starter. Origin? Anyone's guess. Check for any markings on the ricasso/blade top

 

[StanleySmithIII]

The black sword has the coat of arms of Castile and Leon (Spain) and the two 'supporters' are the Pillars of Hercules (Straits of Gibraltar). It has an inset device which I can't easily trace but MAY be three Fler-de-Lys which also appears on Spanish flags.. Instead of a crown surmounting it, it has a fouled anchor (St Clement - patron saint of Mariners) surrounded by what could be sails/masts. It sits on a figure which could be a boat with two 'winds' - a head blowing a 'puff' - at each end.

So? How about a naval or marine infantry sword from Spain or a Spanish territory - Philippines would be a good starter. Origin? Anyone's guess. Check for any markings on the ricasso/blade top

Thank you! That was very helpful.

 

[StanleySmithIII]

Now that you have pointed me in a Naval direction, it looks similar to sword #132 in The American Sword by Harold L. Peterson.

 

[connecticut yankee]

Those are beautiful specimens and examples! They both probably date from the 1830's or a little later; I think somewhere long ago I saw one similar to the one at the left attributed to the Ames Sword Company of Chicopee, Mass. The other one is based on French smallswords of ca. 1800 - 1820's and although having an eagle head for the pommel, the design on the counterguard suggests other than U.S. The design appears to be a specific nationalistic coat-of-arms, possibly Spanish with the castles of Castile and lions of Leon. The patina of the hilts should probably be left alone; in other words, don't try to polish them. What are the blades like?

Welcome to the forums!

I agree on the 1830 date or thereabouts for the sword on left. It is a U.S. military officer's sword. This is the style known to collectors as the Eagle pommel sword. It gets it's name from the large brass pommel cap that is on the end of the grip holding the sword together. This sword was made for the Infantry branch of service. The handle is made of bone. These swords were quite popular with officers during the 1820's to the 1840's. It very well may also have seen service in the Civil War.

 

[UCVRelics]

Very Nice barn finds. Thanks for sharing them with us.

 

[Sundance]

Very nice. Someone's lucky day.

 

[Glen_C]

The sword to the left is an early US market eagle pattern regarded as the Osborn or 'weeping eagle'. Late 18th century and imported from England as late as the 1820s.

from one of my working clipboards (I own four. two spadroons and two sabres)

Osborn - Google Drive

drive.google.com

The other is a bit curious with its Castile counterguard but is assuredly Solingen made in the 1830s or 1840s. There may be a cutler mark at the base of the blade. Similar to the US maker Widmann type VI.

from my clipboard, more examples of this bird (sans the Castile)

German produced - Google Drive

drive.google.com

My latest uploaded Eagles 3.0 clipboard is an archive up to 2021. It contains those two folders and many more. It is simply my scratch pad but I kinda know my way around eagles.

Eagles - Google Drive

drive.google.com

My primary focus on eagles is reflected by the Mowbray book

The American Eagle-Pommel Sword: The Early Years 1794–1830

The American Eagle-Pommel Sword: The Early Years 1794–1830 by E. Andrew Mowbray Second printing. Hundreds of illustrations. Large new color section. This in-depth guide examines the most popular of American sword styles. Discusses the facts and myths surrounding this paramount and handsome...

gunandswordcollector.com

I had recently finally found my own white whale (a Bolton sabre) but the last Osborn in is a very nice spadroon. I have only been collecting antiques for 20 years and my first eagles were in 2006. I have been studying them closely for those years.

Most of my eagles as of 2014 are on the wall here. You'll see two Osborn type on our right.

My two more Osborns since then

The Castile eagle posted is quite interesting and might be a great topic for the eyes and minds at this facebook group.

Facebook

www.facebook.com

Cheers
GC

 

[Glen_C]

The black sword has the coat of arms of Castile and Leon (Spain) and the two 'supporters' are the Pillars of Hercules (Straits of Gibraltar). It has an inset device which I can't easily trace but MAY be three Fler-de-Lys which also appears on Spanish flags.. Instead of a crown surmounting it, it has a fouled anchor (St Clement - patron saint of Mariners) surrounded by what could be sails/masts. It sits on a figure which could be a boat with two 'winds' - a head blowing a 'puff' - at each end.

So? How about a naval or marine infantry sword from Spain or a Spanish territory - Philippines would be a good starter. Origin? Anyone's guess. Check for any markings on the ricasso/blade top

That's darn good for upside down!

 

[gjpratt]

Please tell us more about how you made these barn finds. I have a very nice barn find in my collection.

 

[Old Soldier]

That's darn good for upside down!

Copy, paste, rotate.

 

[James N.]

The sword to the left is an early US market eagle pattern regarded as the Osborn or 'weeping eagle'. Late 18th century and imported from England as late as the 1820s.

from one of my working clipboards (I own four. two spadroons and two sabres)

Osborn - Google Drive

drive.google.com

... Most of my eagles as of 2014 are on the wall here. You'll see two Osborn type on our right.

Glen, no offense but that's a Godawful jumble to try to direct to a specific piece, but I'll try anyway! The one I have looks to be a near twin to yours with hilt third down on the right. It's completely unmarked with only the usual sprigs of foliage; I also have its complete and unbroken scabbard which looks like the similar sword three down on the left. (Of course those are similar swords but mine's like your reverse P guard at the right.) I also have a similar "pillow pommel" not unlike yours second down on the right, but its blade is curved like the ones on the eagleheads; it conforms to the so-called NCO Sword shown in Peterson's American Swords... Unfortunately, the dark photo below is the only one I have showing them at this time. (When the gas logs in the fireplace are burning, the swords are moved to a niche in the corner!)

 

[James N.]

The black sword has the coat of arms of Castile and Leon (Spain) and the two 'supporters' are the Pillars of Hercules (Straits of Gibraltar). It has an inset device which I can't easily trace but MAY be three Fler-de-Lys which also appears on Spanish flags.. Instead of a crown surmounting it, it has a fouled anchor (St Clement - patron saint of Mariners) surrounded by what could be sails/masts. It sits on a figure which could be a boat with two 'winds' - a head blowing a 'puff' - at each end.

So? How about a naval or marine infantry sword from Spain or a Spanish territory - Philippines would be a good starter. Origin? Anyone's guess. Check for any markings on the ricasso/blade top

I would suspect the "usual suspect" in most swords of this period, namely one of the many sword cutlers of Solingen, Germany who were also making most of this type of sword for the U.S. trade as well. Or possibly French since this is pretty much a French style.

 

[Glen_C]

I would suspect the "usual suspect" in most swords of this period, namely one of the many sword cutlers of Solingen, Germany who were also making most of this type of sword for the U.S. trade as well. Or possibly French since this is pretty much a French style.

The sword style with the counterguard reflects changes and really not a French style at all except for the counterguard(see the Mowbray and Flayederman/Mowbray books). When we get to the pommels and ferrules, this has a distinctive Solingen flavor.

It is an interesting sword and after posting images last night, have had a reply stating a Spanish administrative and a sibling bring back from a Span Am veteran. The ferrule type goes back to the 1820s but parts were used for decades. Even in the US stylings, forms lasted through the turn of the century with military association swords (see the Ames catalog reprint).

Cheers
GC

 

[Glen_C]

View attachment 437884

Glen, no offense but that's a Godawful jumble to try to direct to a specific piece, but I'll try anyway! The one I have looks to be a near twin to yours with hilt third down on the right. It's completely unmarked with only the usual sprigs of foliage; I also have its complete and unbroken scabbard which looks like the similar sword three down on the left. (Of course those are similar swords but mine's like your reverse P guard at the right.) I also have a similar "pillow pommel" not unlike yours second down on the right, but its blade is curved like the ones on the eagleheads; it conforms to the so-called NCO Sword shown in Peterson's American Swords... Unfortunately, the dark photo below is the only one I have showing them at this time. (When the gas logs in the fireplace are burning, the swords are moved to a niche in the corner!)

View attachment 437889

The urn/pillow pommel sabre is the Peterson #5 sword and I have both a sabre and straight backsword. These are 1790s through the 1812 war. and pressed horn, or rarer cherry wood. My straight example had been silver washed and an example is in the back of the Flayderman/Mowbray Medicus Collection book.

I cant't quite see the eagle clearly but the Osborn Weepers are distinct, as are the Ketland types.

Here is my first Osborn

The Ketland form morphs over time but the first iteration has a wedge shape on the top of the pommel/ These are on our left in that previous group shot. These ranged from the first decade 1810s to later 1820s or so, losing their wedge.

Early

Late five ball Ketland type without the wedge, with Ozzy and my first Bolton. These three early patterns have been a primary study. My three stooges! There's wires in these pipes!

Cheers
GC

 

[James N.]

Your Peterson #5 and mine appear identical, other than mine's unfortunately missing its upper and middle scabbard mounts. On closer look at yours, I think my eaglehead's pommel is closer to that on your early Ketland, except of course for it's bone grip. Unfortunately, when I got it there was a split down the length of the grip that had been filled with epoxy; it's visible in my photo if you know it's there!

 

[Glen_C]

For clarification on the Ames screaming eagle, those are no earlier than 1836 (see the Ames/ Hamilton book). Both sabres and spadroons were ordered from the army ordnance board. There are more English copies with older blades then there were the Ames produced swords.

Ames (first spadroons with silver wash)

VS the English

There is some debate as to who was first but Ames was the only one to complain. Not something I would debate to the death but imo, Ames did this bird first.

Cheers
GC