Difficult Topics

[CSA Today]

If you're including the failure of Roanoke, then the first documented immigrants would be St. Augustine, FL, right?

Good point, European immigration shouldn't be limited to English America

 

[PaulaPerry]

They helped the Union win the war!

They helped the Union win the war! [/QUOTE
probably right, I don't think there has ever been a Ft. Lee

 

[cash]

probably right, I don't think there has ever been a Ft. Lee

Fort Lee, Virginia.

 

[caller]

Fort Lee, Virginia.

Fort Lee, NJ.... though admittedly for another Lee.

 

[cash]

Fort Lee, NJ.... though admittedly for another Lee.

And not a good one, either.

 

[PaulaPerry]

Fort Lee, Virginia.

Well, there goes that theory.

 

[OpnCoronet]

What? I'd answer that but it doesn't make sense. Immigration began before the Mayflower- and it was a grand place to begin, if that's what you mean. We can't pick and choose who we consider an immigrant based on who we feel are deserving to wear the tag ' American '.

Exactly right, Were not American Indians themselves, immigrants from Asia? If one is going to pick and choose only those who came after ones own ancestors, we have a perfect breeding ground, for formation of many Know-Nothing Partys.

 

[Pat Answer]

And not a good one, either.

Ah, good old Charles and his dogs. I still live not far from the Monmouth battlefield.
But there's a topic for another thread... in another forum...

 

[diane]

Exactly right, Were not American Indians themselves, immigrants from Asia?

No. Later migrations came from Asia and Polynesia but... (whispers) there were already people here. Besides, after a few thousand years you really aren't an immigrant.

 

[JPK Huson 1863]

If you're including the failure of Roanoke, then the first documented immigrants would be St. Augustine, FL, right?

Right whenever- it could be right if the theory is correct early man made the trek over the ice bridge, or fish crawled up outa the sea, grew beards and ate peanut butter sandwiches, why are we splitting hairs? It's still begging the question, what in heck were you referring to when you said it's objectionable to have an immigrant's forum?

 

[Ray Ball]

Is the position impregnable? Well, there's only one way to find out, isn't there?

No position is "impregnable" . The best that can be done is to delay or reroute your enemy until a strategic advantage can be made. Its the first rule of fortifications.

 

[unionblue]

I tend to think we are all born as immigrants into that strange and bizarre country we call "life."

 

[KansasFreestater]

This kind of diverges from the topic, since I wouldn't call it a taboo subject here, but in the "impossible to wrap your head around" category, I would put the Overland Campaign of spring 1864. The contrasts are mind-blowing. Here you had pickets from both sides trading tobacco, coffee, newspapers, etc., chatting and joking back and forth.... only days after the unfathomable mano-a-mano manic/maniacal bayonet butchery of the Bloody Angle.

 

[Elennsar]

There was a remarkable lack of bitterness on the part of the ordinary Johnny Reb and the ordinary Billy Yank.

Not a complete absence, but for all the fury they unleashed on each other in battle, outside battle the tobacco for coffee exchange seems to have been overwhelmingly preferred.

 

[unionblue]

This kind of diverges from the topic, since I wouldn't call it a taboo subject here, but in the "impossible to wrap your head around" category, I would put the Overland Campaign of spring 1864. The contrasts are mind-blowing. Here you had pickets from both sides trading tobacco, coffee, newspapers, etc., chatting and joking back and forth.... only days after the unfathomable mano-a-mano manic/maniacal bayonet butchery of the Bloody Angle.

KansasFreestater,

Soldiers are soldiers, no matter where they come from, no matter what country they represent.

The suffering and misery that they share, the common danger and obstacles they endure, make them understand one another far more than the civilian population they protect and spring from.

They are brothers-in-arms, even when those arms are doing their absolute best to kill one another when combat is taking place.

There are so many stories of soldiers telling each other to get back to cover or to hide themselves better when on picket duty so as to not shoot one another for no good reason.

I have read where soldiers from both sides rejoiced when snipers from either side were killed, as the men thought snipers killing soldiers when out getting canteens filled or simply answering 'calls of nature' were completely needless and cruel.

Soldiers know one another instinctively and what they go through as soldiers.

It's not really amazing.

It just is.

Sincerely,
Unionblue

 

[Elennsar]

But it is impressive is how all the bitterness and anger and frustration that started the war failed to poison that well of human empathy.

Clearly, Johnny Reb and Billy Yank had no time for trolls.

 

[unionblue]

But it is impressive is how all the bitterness and anger and frustration that started the war failed to poison that well of human empathy.

Clearly, Johnny Reb and Billy Yank had no time for trolls.

"We made no distinction between our own and the confederate wounded [at Gettysburg], but treated them both alike, and although we had been engaged in fierce and deadly combat all day and weary and all begrimed with smoke and powder and dust, many of us went around among the wounded and gave cooling water or hot coffee to drink. The confederates were surprised and so expressed themselves that they received such kind treatment at our hands, and some of the slightly wounded were glad they were wounded and our prisoners."

--US Corporal Horatio D. Chapman, from his Civil War Diary of a 49er, 1929.

Unionblue

 

[Elennsar]

"We made no distinction between our own and the confederate wounded [at Gettysburg], but treated them both alike, and although we had been engaged in fierce and deadly combat all day and weary and all begrimed with smoke and powder and dust, many of us went around among the wounded and gave cooling water or hot coffee to drink. The confederates were surprised and so expressed themselves that they received such kind treatment at our hands, and some of the slightly wounded were glad they were wounded and our prisoners."

--US Corporal Horatio D. Chapman, from his Civil War Diary of a 49er, 1929.

Unionblue

One of the most beautiful things I have ever read.

 

[huskerblitz]

But it is impressive is how all the bitterness and anger and frustration that started the war failed to poison that well of human empathy.

Clearly, Johnny Reb and Billy Yank had no time for trolls.

At the end of the day, they were all human. That is the neat thing about reading about ordinary soldiers and why I prefer reading their words than those of the commanders.

As far as the immigrant forum and stuff goes, it's just not an interest to me. Yes, we're all pretty much immigrants (even Natives if you go back far enough) and yes they played an important role. It's just not one that strikes a chord with me. But that's the great thing about the CW is the vast areas of interest it generates. Because people vary in their interests, it gives everyone a richer, deeper understanding that only benefits the whole.

 

[KansasFreestater]

This is quite correct. But the problem becomes the gaps in "real time" between the scout's gathering of information and his getting back to HQ (if not intercepted in some way en route) to report it. And then the commander has to make a decision based on this (and other) scouting reports. If these don't conflict too much, then the decision has to be translated into the placing of troops at the right place, which as you can guess by now may no longer be the right place...

And if you consistently wait for everything to be perfect, people start calling you Little Mac.

So much of any war is making the best decision possible with imperfect, incomplete information -- no way to eliminate the risk of huge snafus. And even in the execution of the least imperfect plan, there will be multiple stupid, maddening things that go wrong. Messages that didn't get to the right person at the right time. Ambiguous orders that gave rise to misunderstandings. Faulty intelligence, outdated maps (not as much of a problem nowadays!), individuals who turned traitor or coward. On and on. Reading about all the mix-ups and "if-only"s in the Civil War makes me want to tear my hair out!