Difficult Topics

[ole]

Why on Earth Jefferson Davis thought it was a remotely good idea to make Leonidas Polk a major general.

The buddy system.

 

[Elennsar]

Then the question comes up, and I believe it's been discussed before, why were such men given command? They had no "guts"?

Politics. I don't know much on Floyd, but Pillow is definitely politics.

 

[1950lemans]

Any topics touching on, relating to, or influenced by modern politics -states rights, racism, affirmative action, reparations,white "privilege" or supremacy, multiculturalism, progressive or revisionist influences or points of view in academic history and education, etc., etc.

If I'm reading you correctly, you're saying any Civil War topic where we inject modern views/opinions is a difficult topic? If so then I would think it's more of those "volatile" topics rather than "difficult" topics to grasp.

 

[Drew]

But the fall of the forts happened at the start of the war. Wouldn't you think the armies at the forts, still riding high on the euphoria of a new nation, would have put up a better fight?

Which forts? The guys that "didn't have the stomach" held a lot of them for a very long time. I think it took something like 30,000 Union troops several months to take Port Hudson, in late '63. The defenders were wildly outnumbered. Someone will correct me if I'm wrong.

 

[Drew]

The buddy system.

This isn't "difficult" and produced some stinkers on both sides.

 

[1950lemans]

We were talking about Fts. Henry & Donelson earlier in the post. That was the "difficult" topic. Why did they surrender so easily?

 

[Nathanb1]

We were talking about Fts. Henry & Donelson earlier in the post. That was the "difficult" topic. Why did they surrender so easily?

That was most assuredly not a choice made by anyone but the head guys. And those were some stinkers in the persons of Pillow and Floyd.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gideon_Johnson_Pillow

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_B._Floyd

 

[Elennsar]

And the forts themselves were underwhelming.

I'm sure there's more recent research, but Thomas L. Connelly gives a good description of that mess, and why Pillow.

 

[1950lemans]

And the forts themselves were underwhelming.

I'm sure there's more recent research, but Thomas L. Connelly gives a good description of that mess, and why Pillow.

By underwhelming do you mean not important?

 

[Nathanb1]

By underwhelming do you mean not important?

They were pretty indefensible. They were definitely important.

 

[Elennsar]

They were pretty indefensible. They were definitely important.

This. Fort Henry was almost worse than useless and Fort Donelson isn't at all impressively built or located.

 

[1950lemans]

Didn't Ft. Henry disappear naturally? and quickly?

 

[NedBaldwin]

Which forts? The guys that "didn't have the stomach" held a lot of them for a very long time. I think it took something like 30,000 Union troops several months to take Port Hudson, in late '63. The defenders were wildly outnumbered. Someone will correct me if I'm wrong.

It was mid '63.

 

[NedBaldwin]

Politics. I don't know much on Floyd, but Pillow is definitely politics.

Maybe so, though Pillow also served as a Brigadier General in the Mexican War and at the time of secession was the ranking general of the Tennessee militia.

 

[Elennsar]

Maybe so, though Pillow also served as a Brigadier General in the Mexican War and at the time of secession was the ranking general of the Tennessee militia.

I don't think his Mexican war service was very credible, but I could be wrong. And being the ranking general of Tennessee militia is as much related to being on good terms with the governor as any perceived military ability.

 

[GenDeb]

Death. The dying. The wounded.

This. I cannot wrap my mind around the death toll. Or the damaged bodies and minds that somehow survived. Of any war really but doubly so here. Because both sides were here.

 

[NedBaldwin]

I don't think his Mexican war service was very credible, but I could be wrong. And being the ranking general of Tennessee militia is as much related to being on good terms with the governor as any perceived military ability.

Ok. I dont think your wrong as every general owed his rank to being on good terms with the executive.

 

[Elennsar]

Ok. I dont think your wrong as every general owed his rank to being on good terms with the executive.

Put like that, yes. But some men had ability to recommend them, and some had only connections to recommend them.

 

[Nathanb1]

Maybe so, though Pillow also served as a Brigadier General in the Mexican War and at the time of secession was the ranking general of the Tennessee militia.

Ok. I dont think your wrong as every general owed his rank to being on good terms with the executive.

Ah, but his service was particularly....fraught with problems. Which is to say he was an idiot and a thorn in the side of everyone in the Mexican War....and there's a difference between "good terms" and "toady." And, BTW, I have to take issue with the second comment--Davis absolutely despised Ben McCulloch, mostly because he was one of those "Texas Rangers" that behaved so badly in the Mexican War (never mind that McCulloch's exceptional scouting pulled his rear out of the fire--or maybe that's one of the reasons!).

 

[diane]

Ft Henry dang near drowned everybody in it from time to time - they had to head for high ground when the river rose even a little bit. Ft Donelson - location, location, location! It should have been a ways off except for Kentucky neutrality. If it had been in Kentucky where it was supposed to have been, it would have been a dandy fort indeed.

Which is another reason That Guy knocked Kentucky's star off his flag...