Didn't he do enough?

[Rebforever]

When was that?

Knoxville.

 

[Rebforever]

"The Knoxville Campaign ended following the battle of Bean's Station, and both sides went into winter quarters. The only real effect of the minor campaign was to deprive Bragg of troops he sorely needed in Chattanooga. Longstreet's foray as an independent commander was a failure, and his self-confidence was damaged. He reacted to the failure of the campaign by blaming others, as he had done at the Battle of Seven Pines in the Peninsula Campaign the previous year. He relieved Lafayette McLaws from command and requested the court martial of Brig. Gens. Jerome B. Robertson and Evander M. Law. He also submitted a letter of resignation to Adjutant General Samuel Cooper on December 30, 1863, but his request to be relieved was denied. His corps suffered through a severe winter in East Tennessee with inadequate shelter and provisions, unable to return to Virginia until the spring.[20]"


wikipedia,Knoxville_Campaign

 

[War Horse]

Yeah that didn't go so well. You are referring to the McLaws Court Marshal. McLaws did fail to engage.

 

[War Horse]

"The Knoxville Campaign ended following the battle of Bean's Station, and both sides went into winter quarters. The only real effect of the minor campaign was to deprive Bragg of troops he sorely needed in Chattanooga. Longstreet's foray as an independent commander was a failure, and his self-confidence was damaged. He reacted to the failure of the campaign by blaming others, as he had done at the Battle of Seven Pines in the Peninsula Campaign the previous year. He relieved Lafayette McLaws from command and requested the court martial of Brig. Gens. Jerome B. Robertson and Evander M. Law. He also submitted a letter of resignation to Adjutant General Samuel Cooper on December 30, 1863, but his request to be relieved was denied. His corps suffered through a severe winter in East Tennessee with inadequate shelter and provisions, unable to return to Virginia until the spring.[20]"


wikipedia,Knoxville_Campaign

Knoxville was a definite low but McLaws had his share in the blame as refused to engage the enemy. Seven Pines on the other hand may not have been his fault at all. His orders were verbal and it very possible they were misunderstood and he had just returned from burying his three children a short time before. Lee never charged him or blamed him.

 

[Rebforever]

Knoxville was a definite low but McLaws had his share in the blame as refused to engage the enemy.

McLaws was the senior General and tried to talk Longstreet out of the attack on Fort Sanders. The same situation Longstreet was in at Gettysburg with Lee. Jenkins also told Longstreet an attack was impossible but was shot down and to to man up and attack. Results was the proof to their pudding.

Seven Pines on the other hand may not have been his fault at all. His orders were verbal and it very possible they were misunderstood and he had just returned from burying his three children a short time before. Lee never charged him or blamed him.

He blocked the attack at 7 pines by being on the wrong road and threw the attack out of balance. I am not sure without reading a little more but I believe he was behind his army and not present on the field after he gave the marching orders.
And as I have said many times, Robert E. Lee accepted mistakes by those who fought for him except for McLaws. Then all he said about him was for Longstreet to stay close to him. Lee did start moving Generals around after the 7 days Peninsula war.

 

[War Horse]

McLaws was the senior General and tried to talk Longstreet out of the attack on Fort Sanders. The same situation Longstreet was in at Gettysburg with Lee. Jenkins also told Longstreet an attack was impossible but was shot down and to to man up and attack. Results was the proof to their pudding.

This is correct! McLaws however did blatantly no follow orders and deserved to be punished. It's one thing to disagree and another to fail to perform in battle. The attack was a failure and maybe a bad idea but as at Gettysburg, once your appeal is squelched you have not choice but to follow orders. Just like Longstreet did at Gettysburg. The only difference is everyone criticizes Longstreet for his performance at Gettysburg but the fact is he did follow through. McLaws did not and may have caused the attack to fail.

He blocked the attack at 7 pines by being on the wrong road and threw the attack out of balance. I am not sure without reading a little more but I believe he was behind his army and not present on the field after he gave the marching orders.
And as I have said many times, Robert E. Lee accepted mistakes by those who fought for him except for McLaws. Then all he said about him was for Longstreet to stay close to him. Lee did start moving Generals around after the 7 days Peninsula war.

This is all true except I don't remember anything about being behind the army. Longstreet never did accept the blame and that is in my opinion one of his downfalls. He was indeed very proud and even boastful. However the orders were verbal and there is a chance he was correct. We don't know and never will.

 

[War Horse]

McLaws was the senior General and tried to talk Longstreet out of the attack on Fort Sanders. The same situation Longstreet was in at Gettysburg with Lee. Jenkins also told Longstreet an attack was impossible but was shot down and to to man up and attack. Results was the proof to their pudding.



He blocked the attack at 7 pines by being on the wrong road and threw the attack out of balance. I am not sure without reading a little more but I believe he was behind his army and not present on the field after he gave the marching orders.
And as I have said many times, Robert E. Lee accepted mistakes by those who fought for him except for McLaws. Then all he said about him was for Longstreet to stay close to him. Lee did start moving Generals around after the 7 days Peninsula war.

Reb, I stand corrected the charges against McLaws were Neglect of Duty on three counts. Counts #1 Leaving the column unprotected by failing to place sharpshooters "within good rifle range" #2 Not issuing correct instructions to the Force. an #3 Directing the assault units toward the section of the fort where the ditch "was impassable" not supplying the troops with ladders or other means of crossing the barrier.

It was General Jerome Robertson who demanded his orders be written not verbal and failed to engage until the fight was over. My apologies!!

 

[Rebforever]

War Horse, I haven't had a chance to look up in my books to see where Longstreet was during the road block.
Hugar went looking for him I know but I don't know where he was.

I am busy today and when I shake loose I will look it up.

Reb

 

[War Horse]

War Horse, I haven't had a chance to look up in my books to see where Longstreet was during the road block.
Hugar went looking for him I know but I don't know where he was.

I am busy today and when I shake loose I will look it up.

Reb

Sounds good Reb, I'll have a look also, later this afternoon. Going from Memory alone sometimes bites me.

 

[Rebforever]

Sounds good Reb, I'll have a look also, later this afternoon. Going from Memory alone sometimes bites me.

I will retract the statement Longstreet was behind lines not with his men. Guess I must have been dreaming!
I will keep a lookout for that just in case. If I do run up on it someplace will surely post it.
Sorry
R

 

[FarawayFriend]

May I as the one who has started this thread just say that I'm very proud to be part of this forum? You have dicussed hard but you always were polite and respectful. I was afraid this might end in battle, but it ended in peace negotiations and so let me congratulate you on your respective readiness to apologize. This shows an amount of personal greatness I can only applaud at.

 

[War Horse]

I will retract the statement Longstreet was behind lines not with his men. Guess I must have been dreaming!
I will keep a lookout for that just in case. If I do run up on it someplace will surely post it.
Sorry
R

Lol and I'll be there a little better prepared this time. Thanks Reb we make it fun.

 

[War Horse]

"The Knoxville Campaign ended following the battle of Bean's Station, and both sides went into winter quarters. The only real effect of the minor campaign was to deprive Bragg of troops he sorely needed in Chattanooga. Longstreet's foray as an independent commander was a failure, and his self-confidence was damaged. He reacted to the failure of the campaign by blaming others, as he had done at the Battle of Seven Pines in the Peninsula Campaign the previous year. He relieved Lafayette McLaws from command and requested the court martial of Brig. Gens. Jerome B. Robertson and Evander M. Law. He also submitted a letter of resignation to Adjutant General Samuel Cooper on December 30, 1863, but his request to be relieved was denied. His corps suffered through a severe winter in East Tennessee with inadequate shelter and provisions, unable to return to Virginia until the spring.[20]"


wikipedia,Knoxville_Campaign

I will say this the accounts of that winter may have been harsh but Longstreet's troops made the best of it. Bragg failed to provide the provisions he promised and the core had only 68 wagons to make it through the winter. (Bragg hated Longstreet and Vice Versa) Of the 68 wagons 40 were loaded with coffee and sugar. Not suitable to sustain any army. They were forced to forage for their existence. They did an amazing job. The following is an account of that Christmas. "Three days before Christmas, the confederates-----Poorly clad and scantily fed, and many of them barefooted in the description of an officer--- were settling into winter quarters south of the Holston River around Russellville. Morristown and Rogersville, along the tracks of the East Tennessee and Virginia Railroad. They had their "shanties" built by Christmas and had foraged through the country-side for their holiday meals. Although an officer thought the region "a bleak, desolate, inhospitable country," the soldiers found it for the present brimming with foodstuffs and "moonshine" On Christmas day they dined on turkey, chicken, ham, molasses cake, ginger bread and cornpone. It was a welcome feast for men who had been hungry since they had left Tyner's Station. Moxley Sorrel remembered the troops as "happy and cheerful," despite the shortages of winter clothing and shoes. Ample supplies of oak and hickory logs warmed the shanties, but winter had only just begun---Long nights to think of home, families and the diminished hopes of the cause. If the men remained "happy and cheerful," as Sorrel later attested, it resulted from those inner qualities shared by veterans."

Jeffery Wert James Longstreet The Confederacy's most Controversial Soldier. Page 357

 

[Northern Light]

I will say this the accounts of that winter may have been harsh but Longstreet's troops made the best of it. Bragg failed to provide the provisions he promised and the core had only 68 wagons to make it through the winter. (Bragg hated Longstreet and Vice Versa) Of the 68 wagons 40 were loaded with coffee and sugar. Not suitable to sustain any army. They were forced to forage for their existence. They did an amazing job. The following is an account of that Christmas. "Three days before Christmas, the confederates-----Poorly clad and scantily fed, and many of them barefooted in the description of an officer--- were settling into winter quarters south of the Holston River around Russellville. Morristown and Rogersville, along the tracks of the East Tennessee and Virginia Railroad. They had their "shanties" built by Christmas and had foraged through the country-side for their holiday meals. Although an officer thought the region "a bleak, desolate, inhospitable country," the soldiers found it for the present brimming with foodstuffs and "moonshine" On Christmas day they dined on turkey, chicken, ham, molasses cake, ginger bread and cornpone. It was a welcome feast for men who had been hungry since they had left Tyner's Station. Moxley Sorrel remembered the troops as "happy and cheerful," despite the shortages of winter clothing and shoes. Ample supplies of oak and hickory logs warmed the shanties, but winter had only just begun---Long nights to think of home, families and the diminished hopes of the cause. If the men remained "happy and cheerful," as Sorrel later attested, it resulted from those inner qualities shared by veterans."

Jeffery Wert James Longstreet The Confederacy's most Controversial Soldier. Page 357

I find it incredibly sad that feuds between generals caused suffering to the troops that were serving them so well. Such pettiness is despicable.

 

[diane]

I find it incredibly sad that feuds between generals caused suffering to the troops that were serving them so well. Such pettiness is despicable.

Bragg was at his pettiest at that point. Maybe paranoid or maybe gunshy but he wasn't having any of Longstreet. He didn't even tell Longstreet where he was and that general had to blunder about finding Bragg's headquarters - which nearly got him captured! It's too bad Longstreet got involved in the intrigues of the AoT high command, but I do think he felt it was his duty. He has been accused of wanting to take command from Bragg, being dissatisfied with his position with Lee, but I really think it was more to settle out the AoT. From the horse holders to the generals it was a sight to behold! At one time the AoT was second only to the ANV - all they lacked was a good team of leaders pulling together.

 

[Northern Light]

Bragg was at his pettiest at that point. Maybe paranoid or maybe gunshy but he wasn't having any of Longstreet. He didn't even tell Longstreet where he was and that general had to blunder about finding Bragg's headquarters - which nearly got him captured! It's too bad Longstreet got involved in the intrigues of the AoT high command, but I do think he felt it was his duty. He has been accused of wanting to take command from Bragg, being dissatisfied with his position with Lee, but I really think it was more to settle out the AoT. From the horse holders to the generals it was a sight to behold! At one time the AoT was second only to the ANV - all they lacked was a good team of leaders pulling together.

I have not read much about Bragg other than in a generalized (no pun, intended) way. Did he get the same kind of slagging that Longstreet did from former subordinates?

 

[diane]

I have not read much about Bragg other than in a generalized (no pun, intended) way. Did he get the same kind of slagging that Longstreet did from former subordinates?

Oh, yeah! Bragg is a whole 'nother universe...

 

[Northern Light]

Oh, yeah! Bragg is a whole 'nother universe...

Thanks, Diane, I will have to investigate!

 

[southern blue]

Oh, yeah! Bragg is a whole 'nother universe...

Bragg took some of my great grandfather's furniture.

 

[Northern Light]

As in "helped himself"?