Deserters in Robert E. Lee's Army.

[Vareb]

I am reading a book now that says General Lee lost 10% of his army to desertion when he crossed the Potomac. Does that sound right? I have never heard that before and maybe some of y'all know the answer.

Here is a website about desertion.


http://www.civilwarhome.com/desertion.htm

 

[Scribe]

I am reading a book now that says General Lee lost 10% of his army to desertion when he crossed the Potomac. Does that sound right? I have never heard that before and maybe some of y'all know the answer.

Here is a website about desertion.


http://www.civilwarhome.com/desertion.htm

Same question as in your earlier post on the same subject so I'll give you my same answer.

On September 13, 1861, Lee reported to Jefferson Davis, "One great embarassment is the reduction of our ranks by straggling, which it seems impossible to prevent with our present regimental officers. Our ranks are very much diminished, I fear from a third to a half of our original numbers, though I have reason to hope that our casualties in battle will not exceed five thousand men."

Though Lee threw his regimental officers under the caisson blaming them for the straggling it would seem that he might have taken some of the blame on himself since on September 3, 1862, before moving into Maryland, he had informed Davis, "This army is not properly equipped for an invasion of an enemy's territory. It lacks much of the material of war, is feeble in transportation, the animals being much reduced, and the men are poorly provided with clothes, and in thousands of instances are destitute of shoes."

Despite this, Lee moved ahead and the result, per Clifford Dowdey, editor, The Wartime Papers of Robert E. Lee, "Of the 55,000 infantry he [Lee] took into Maryland, less than 40,000 were to be were available for combat when needed, as the army suffered the heaviest losses from straggling in its history."

Straggling, of course, ain't the same as desertion, but when it comes to the number of men available for a fight the short-term effect is the same.

 

[gary]

By 1865, there was no shortage of desertion.

Go back a few more years, some folks weren't deserters per se but they found ways to leave the ranks. During the Antietam Campaign, many men threw away their shoes so they wouldn't have to go on campaign. They could do so on the pretext that Lee said that any man without shoes may remain behind. There's also the case of hospital rats. That is, the folks who lingered behind in hospitals and over-extended their stay. There's also the story of one Confederate who requested to become a musician. The reply was classic, "The army needs shooters, not tooters."

I have an article that will be released in the Winter 2008 issue of The Military Collector and Historian (publication of The Company of Military Historians). It discusses a soldier who was trying to get transferred out of the fighting ranks and into a clerical position or a civilian position in the Confederate government. It took a while but he finally managed it.

 

[Given to Fly]

There's also the story of one Confederate who requested to become a musician. The reply was classic, "The army needs shooters, not tooters."

That is one of the funniest things I've read in a long time!

 

[M E Wolf]

Dear List Members:

O.R.--SERIES I--VOLUME XLVI/2 [S# 96]
CONFEDERATE CORRESPONDENCE, ORDERS, AND RETURNS RELATING TO OPERATIONS IN NORTHERN AND SOUTHEASTERN VIRGINIA, NORTH CAROLINA (JANUARY 1-31), WEST VIRGINIA, MARYLAND, AND PENNSYLVANIA, FROM JANUARY 1, 1865, TO MARCH 15, 1865.--#10
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CIRCULAR.] HDQRS. ARMIES OF THE CONFEDERATE STATES,
February 22, 1865.
[excerpt]
Fully impressed with the truth of these views I call your attention particularly to the accompanying order(*) with reference to the duties of file-closers, which you will immediately carry into execution.
Impress upon your officers that discipline cannot be attained without constant watchfulness on their part. They must attend to the smallest particulars of detail. Men must be habituated to obey, or they cannot be controlled in battle, and the neglect of the least important order impairs the proper influence of the officer.
In recommending officers or men for promotion, you will always, where other qualifications are equal, give preference to those who show the highest appreciation of the importance of discipline and evince the greatest attention to its requirements.
Very respectfully, your obedient servant,
R. E. LEE,
General.
GENERAL ORDERS No. 4.
HEADQUARTERS ARMIES OF THE C. S.,
February 22, 1865.
I. The experience of our own and other armies having established that the safety, no less than the efficiency, of troops requires that order be maintained and every man kept in his propel position in action, the following instructions will be immediately carried into effect:
A thorough examination by competent officers selected by the corps commander, or officer commanding detached troops, will be made as to the qualifications and character of the commissioned and non-commissioned officers of each company. Such of the former as shall be reported deficient in intelligence, coolness, and capacity will be brought before examining boards, and those of the latter so reported will be reduced to the ranks. Appointments to fill vacancies among the non-commissioned officers will be made from those soldiers of the company most distinguished for courage, discipline, and attention to duty.
II. The file-closers will be carefully instructed in their duties by the regimental commanders, and vacancies will be filled as they occur among the non-commissioned and lance officers from the best and most tried soldiers of the company. On the march they will be required to prevent straggling and be held responsible for the presence of their respective squads of ten. In action they will keep two paces behind the rear rank of their several squads, the non-commissioned and lance officers with loaded guns and fixed bayonets. They will be diligently instructed to aid in preserving order in the ranks and enforcing obedience to commands, and to permit no man to leave his place unless wounded, excused in writing by the medical officer of the regiment, or by order of the regimental commander. For this purpose they will use such degree of force as may be necessary. If any refuse to advance, disobey orders, or leave the ranks to plunder or to retreat, the filecloser will promptly cut down or fire upon the delinquents. They will treat in the same manner any man who uses words or actions calculated to produce alarm among the troops. Justice to the brave men who remain at their posts, no less than the success to our arms, demands that this order be rigorously executed, and it will be enjoined upon file-closers that they shall make the evasion of duty more dangerous than its performance.
III. The value of the foregoing order will depend upon the character of the file-closers and the diligence with which they are instructed. None should be selected but such as can understand and appreciate the importance of their duties, and possess the necessary coolness and determination to perform them faithfully. Regimental commanders«79 R R--VOL XLVI, PT II» will promptly prefer charges against the commissioned officers and return to the ranks all others who neglect or refuse to carry out the foregoing instructions.
R. E. LEE,

General.
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This is how drastic Lee got.

Respectfully submitted for consideration,
M. E. Wolf

 

[M E Wolf]

Dear List Members;

O.R.-- SERIES I--VOLUME X/1 [S# 10]
April 6-7, 1862..--Battle of Pittsburg Landing, or Shiloh, Tenn.
No. 166. -- Report of General Braxton Bragg, C. S. Army, commanding Second Army Corps.
It may not be amiss to refer briefly to the causes it is believed operated to prevent the complete overthrow of the enemy, which we were so near accomplishing, and which would have changed the entire complexion of the war.
The want of proper organization and discipline, and the inferiority in many cases of our officers to the men they were expected to command, left us often without system or order; and the large proportion of stragglers resulting weakened our forces and kept the superior and staff officers constantly engaged in the duties of file-closers. Especially was this the case after the occupancy of each of the enemy's camps, the spoils of which served to delay and greatly to demoralize our men. But no one cause probably contributed so largely to our loss of time— which was the loss of success— as the fall of the commanding general. At the moment of this irreparable disaster the plan of battle was being rapidly and successfully executed under his immediate eye and lead on the right.
For want of a common superior to the different commands on that part of the field great delay occurred after this misfortune, and that delay prevented the consummation of the work so gallantly and successfully begun and carried on until the approach of night induced our new commander to recall the exhausted troops for rest and recuperation before a crowning effort on the next morning.
The arrival during the night of a large and fresh army to re-enforce the enemy, equal in numbers at least to our own, frustrated all his well-grounded expectations, and, after a long and bloody contest with superior forces, compelled us to retire from the field, leaving our killed, many of our wounded, and nearly all of the trophies of the previous day's victories.
In this result we have a valuable lesson, by which we should profit— -never on a battle-field to lose a moment's time, but leaving the killed, wounded, and spoils to those whose special business it is to care for them, to press on with every available man, giving a panic-stricken and retreating foe no time to rally, and reaping all the benefits of a success never complete until every enemy is killed, wounded, or captured. No course so certain as this to afford succor to he wounded and security to the trophies.
I am, sir, very respectfully, your obedient servant,
BRAXTON BRAGG,
General, Commanding.
Brig. Gen. THOMAS JORDAN,
Chief of Staff.
P. S.— The transmission of this report has been delayed from time to time, that those from subordinate commanders, with a complete and perfect list of killed, wounded, and missing, might accompany it. In this hope I am yet disappointed to a certain extent.
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Bragg had the same problem with stragglers. If Bragg and Lee had problems; I'm sure it was a problem in all the commands.

Respectfully submitted for consideration,
M. E. Wolf

 

[Latigerreb]

I am reading a book now that says General Lee lost 10% of his army to desertion when he crossed the Potomac. Does that sound right? I have never heard that before and maybe some of y'all know the answer.

Towards the end of the war, believe it was either 1864 or 65, there were a number of advertisements in the general Virginia area (Richmond, Lynchburg, etc) addressed to troops from Louisiana asking them to return to their commands, no questions asked. I have the ads, will find them and post here.
Latigerrerb
Jim T

 

[Scribe]

Bragg had the same problem with stragglers. If Bragg and Lee had problems; I'm sure it was a problem in all the commands.

Respectfully submitted for consideration,
M. E. Wolf

On one march General Jubal Early was approached by one of Stonewall Jackson's staff who informed Early, "General Jackson would like to know why he sees so many stragglers from your division today."

"Perhaps," Early replied, "it is because General Jackson is riding behind my division today."

 

[ole]

On one march General Jubal Early was approached by one of Stonewall Jackson's staff who informed Early, "General Jackson would like to know why he sees so many stragglers from your division today."

"Perhaps," Early replied, "it is because General Jackson is riding behind my division today."

Hadn't heard that one, but it says it all. At the time armies, civilian or professional, all over the world, had a problem with stragglers and deserters especially since it involved only fading into the woods (to rejoin after the battle or to just go home).

We seem to be leaning heavily on Lee's particular problem when it appears to have been a problem for all armies. In Lee's case, it would have been exacerbated in that it was particularly easy for Virginians, Marylanders and North Carolinians to disappear.

The bloom of glorious war fades in direct proportion to discomfort.

ole

 

[Latigerreb]

March On

On one march General Jubal Early was approached by one of Stonewall Jackson's staff who informed Early, "General Jackson would like to know why he sees so many stragglers from your division today." "Perhaps," Early replied, "it is because General Jackson is riding behind my division today."

At the time of the arrival of the Louisiana Brigade in the Valley at New Market, General Jackson (so it has been written, just can not provide source at this time), after viewing the arrival after a 26 mile march with no stragglers, asked of BG Richard Taylor that he teach his men to march like the Louisiana Brigade, because his men straggled badly.
JIM T

 

[M E Wolf]

Dear Latigerreb;

Welcome to CivilWarTalk!

Respectfully submitted,
M. E. Wolf

 

[M E Wolf]

Dear Scribe;

That ought to be included in the 'Quotes' section of the forum. LOL

That is sogood!

Respectfully submitted,
M. E. Wolf