CWT Fall Muster 2025?

[RaggedAssSecond]

@UCVRelics brings up an interesting point and I would like to hear from other muster organizers about this. How much of your own money did you spend on the muster's you organized or helped to organize?

 

[archieclement]

As people have mainly threw out wish lists of where they would like ones to be.....mine in order would probally be Charleston, Gettysburg, Port Hudson......2 of the three could be considered "eastern"

But like all the other suggestions as far as I've seen in this thread.....none have volunteer hosts.......

And your looking at it wrong @UCVRelics ...........Beau Rivage would be subsidizing it.....you just have to collect it

 

[Drew]

Port Hudson is Eastern? Well OK.

Most of us have been to Gettysburg and I'd love to do Charleston but have it on good authority it'll be expensive and logistically difficult.

Love the Mississippi River cruise idea, but it will price out too many of our members. The Virginia battlefields we haven't done as a group and could pull it off logistically and financially. Manassas or Fredericksburg are both accessible and affordable.

Let me know when the CWT Swamis have decided and I'll do what I can to help.

 

[archieclement]

Port Hudson is Eastern? Well OK.

Most of us have been to Gettysburg and I'd love to do Charleston but have it on good authority it'll be expensive and logistically difficult.

Love the Mississippi River cruise idea, but it will price out too many of our members. The Virginia battlefields we haven't done as a group and could pull it off logistically and financially. Manassas or Fredericksburg are both accessible and affordable.

Let me know when the CWT Swamis have decided and I'll do what I can to help.

2 of three....Charleston and Gettysburg.....

But to us west of the Mississipi River anything east of it is east......and port Hudson would then technically be east

 

[RaggedAssSecond]

A river boat cruise down the James River from Hampton Roads to Richmond is doable and affordable. A lecture on the Merrimack and Monitor could probably be arranged for this cruise, followed by anyone of a number of sites around Richmond (Cold Harbor, Gainesville, Malvern Hill, Chimborazo Medical Museum).

Private charters are possible by the hour with a maximum capacity of 120 people and this can include catering. Imagine an evening cruise down the James River to Richmond which is approximately forty minutes. This cruise would be on a sailboat and not a paddle wheeler. We would not need 120 people to pull this off.

Or there is a budget cruise around the harbor.

"Miss Hampton II offers daily narrated harbor tours featuring historical sites such as Fort Monroe, Fort Wool, and the site of the battle of the Monitor & Merrimac. See where Blackbeard's head was displayed after his capture. View the majestic Chesapeake Bay, Hampton Roads Harbor, and see the warships of the fleet at the Norfolk Naval Base."

How many musters have included something on the Naval operations of the Civil War? A cruise might bring out other members who might not otherwise attend. Just another option to think about.

 

[RaggedAssSecond]

I think a tour of Cold Harbor with Don Pfanz could be arranged.

 

[archieclement]

An alternative is Civil War meet-ups.

The difference is they are generally only friends or capped at a small number of participants instead of open to any members wishing to attend.

Being smaller and more limited many aspects such as advance arranging for lodging or food are less necessary as well things like parking concerns. Being informal less need for regimented itineraries.

Think muster sizes have typically been 20-40 in west and even higher in east. Meetups would be more like 8-12. Obvious downside is if was formerly advertised or promoted on forum, is not everyone could go. So generally are more low key or private invite.

The distinguishing feature of official muster is have been open to anyone wishing to attend so require more planning and advance arrangement due to size.

 

[Diane123]

The distinguishing feature of official muster is have been open to anyone wishing to attend so require more planning and advance arrangement due to size.

Archie makes an excellent point here. The other distinguishing feature of musters is that they are generally as low-cost for participants as possible. A river cruise sounds amazing, but I don't think this is something that most members could afford.
Then, there is the feasibility issue from a liability standpoint. Treating the cruise as a group activity means someone is not only going to have financial responsibility for booking, but will also have to pay the down payment out of their own pocket or take deposits from participants. There are all sorts of problems asking the participants for deposits in order to secure the booking. I wouldn't want to be responsible for holding large amounts of other people's money (especially people that I don't really know and who don't know me.) Not to mention the possible tax implications (depending on your profession) of having that income and then paying it out.
A river cruise would probably be something that could be offered as a meetup or "mini-muster" (my term, not official CWT term) for those with "extra jingle" in their pockets. I could be wrong in my assessment, but I know in the past that even the most economically conservative musters have still had folks complain about cost.

 

[Diane123]

@UCVRelics brings up an interesting point and I would like to hear from other muster organizers about this. How much of your own money did you spend on the muster's you organized or helped to organize?

I didn't even keep track. The team made two scouting trips to the area to meet with vendors, etc. Not taking planning costs into consideration (air fare, hotel stays, meals) the actual cost of the event was probably around $2,5000 - $3,000. (With planning costs you could easily double that, because the team members all live in the Southeast and had extensive travel expenses to get to VA.)

 

[NH Civil War Gal]

I didn't even keep track. The team made two scouting trips to the area to meet with vendors, etc. Not taking planning costs into consideration (air fare, hotel stays, meals) the actual cost of the event was probably around $2,5000 - $3,000. (With planning costs you could easily double that, because the team members all live in the Southeast and had extensive travel expenses to get to VA.)

I did the Antietam Muster and drove down at least once from NH to scout out and had @Stone in the wall as my boots on the ground there. He did a number of scouting trips for me. I know I put in at least $1500.00 of my own money in making the weekend happen.

I was able to stay with my niece in Maryland during the initial scouting trips so that saved me hotel money.

The River Boat Cruises sound amazing but they seem to start at 5K and go own for far more than a weekend!

The point of a CWT Muster is to make it accessible to the most members for the most reasonable cost. They got started around 2017 with an initial Gettysburg Muster. While we certainly have members that can afford riverboat cruises, even they don't seem to be doing that or at least they aren't posting about it.

Whomever is the Quartermaster has to take the responsibility of putting their name on the legal contract with the hotel and doing any deposits required. That's one of the bottom lines. So you want to go with a hotel, usually a Hampton Inn that will allow you to bring food and drink/water into the hotel. Other hotels typically make you buy all provisions, including water, from them. That gets real pricey real fast. We've had VERY good luck with the Hampton's giving us a "War Room" - which is a conference room, for free. We can have talks in there, keep a lot of our stuff in there - goody bags, swag, stuff like that. We give them publicity. At Antietam, I even arranged to have a cannon set up in their foyer IF I could get the person with the cannon to bring it. That didn't work out but the fact that I could do that was great publicity for their hotel. In Mobile, where I was on the staff, that hotel took pictures of us for their website to show another aspect of what to do in that area if you stay there.

So… I'm telling all this so you know how we have to work the angles in getting the best rates for these hotels in an area and accomplishing our goals.

Over the years, as this muster thing has evolved and people have met, smaller groups have emerged and meet-up as they've become friends and have more focussed interests. Not to say that a larger muster can't or shouldn't happen. But they are A LOT of work to put on and they cost money and time.

I would never hold a muster that is so expensive that it excludes everyone but the top 1% because that isn't a muster but a private vacation of the rich. Have a vacation if you can but don't call it a muster because most can't join in.

I'm from NH and happened to know the Antietam area. I don't know any of the other areas so I don't think I can host a muster anywhere else and we just did the Antietam area so it is way too soon to revisit that area again.

 

[Diane123]

I would never hold a muster that is so expensive that it excludes everyone but the top 1% because that isn't a muster but a private vacation of the rich. Have a vacation if you can but don't call it a muster because most can't join in.

Exactly! Well put, Tina!

And the Hampton Inn in Winchester wouldn't even allow us to bring in our own alcohol, which bumped up the cost for everyone because we had to arrange a cash bar, and it also required a minimum cost that @gjpratt was kind enough to cover for the group.

 

[stu613]

I am one of those "paupers" and retired who cant afford to host a muster- heck i am lucky enough to just be able to attend them plus a tour or two thru the year, plus being from Texas the distance has a large impact on being able to plan/attend these type functions. Perhaps this plays a part (not to mention my personailty) in not being asked to be a part of any of the cadres that form their own private/mini musters but I certainly enjoy the "after action" reports and pictures that get posted here on this site. I truly hope this year's muster comes about and would offer what little heip I might be able to provide.

 

[Diane123]

Perhaps this plays a part (not to mention my personailty) in not being asked to be a part of any of the cadres that form their own private/mini musters

You are always welcome to join us on any trip we make. We just know how far away you are. I will make a better effort in the future to inform you of all meetups!

 

[RaggedAssSecond]

I did the Antietam Muster and drove down at least once from NH to scout out and had @Stone in the wall as my boots on the ground there. He did a number of scouting trips for me. I know I put in at least $1500.00 of my own money in making the weekend happen.

I was able to stay with my niece in Maryland during the initial scouting trips so that saved me hotel money.

The River Boat Cruises sound amazing but they seem to start at 5K and go own for far more than a weekend!

The point of a CWT Muster is to make it accessible to the most members for the most reasonable cost. They got started around 2017 with an initial Gettysburg Muster. While we certainly have members that can afford riverboat cruises, even they don't seem to be doing that or at least they aren't posting about it.

Whomever is the Quartermaster has to take the responsibility of putting their name on the legal contract with the hotel and doing any deposits required. That's one of the bottom lines. So you want to go with a hotel, usually a Hampton Inn that will allow you to bring food and drink/water into the hotel. Other hotels typically make you buy all provisions, including water, from them. That gets real pricey real fast. We've had VERY good luck with the Hampton's giving us a "War Room" - which is a conference room, for free. We can have talks in there, keep a lot of our stuff in there - goody bags, swag, stuff like that. We give them publicity. At Antietam, I even arranged to have a cannon set up in their foyer IF I could get the person with the cannon to bring it. That didn't work out but the fact that I could do that was great publicity for their hotel. In Mobile, where I was on the staff, that hotel took pictures of us for their website to show another aspect of what to do in that area if you stay there.

So… I'm telling all this so you know how we have to work the angles in getting the best rates for these hotels in an area and accomplishing our goals.

Over the years, as this muster thing has evolved and people have met, smaller groups have emerged and meet-up as they've become friends and have more focussed interests. Not to say that a larger muster can't or shouldn't happen. But they are A LOT of work to put on and they cost money and time.

I would never hold a muster that is so expensive that it excludes everyone but the top 1% because that isn't a muster but a private vacation of the rich. Have a vacation if you can but don't call it a muster because most can't join in.

I'm from NH and happened to know the Antietam area. I don't know any of the other areas so I don't think I can host a muster anywhere else and we just did the Antietam area so it is way too soon to revisit that area again.

Thank you @NH Civil War Gal! I think it is important for others to get a better idea of what is involved in putting together a muster. Like I stated in a previous post, I've never been involved with a muster on any level and I have helped organize a military reunion which is similar. Yes a muster must be as economically affordable for all those who want to attend. Unlike a muster, the military reunion I was involved with we went to extremes to help some members attend. There is a big difference between a gathering of friends who are Civil War enthusiasts and a gathering of veterans.

 

[archieclement]

Why I added financial responsibity in some my posts about being host.

Know many in past paid for some extras out of their own pocket, as well used personal connections for places and speakers......but even if one did none of that....as Tina points out just the cost of driving around several weekends and meals those days would add up, much less if needed hotel on scouting/planning trips.

Then as pointed out there's the signing commitments to hotels or large dinner reservations or arrangements like catered meals.

I like to think its relatively low risk with our members, and far as I know never have had problems......but as they are open and new members welcome......would think there's always a slight risk.....

 

[gjpratt]

Why I added financial responsibity in some my posts about being host.

Know many in past paid for some extras out of their own pocket, as well used personal connections for places and speakers......but even if one did none of that....as Tina points out just the cost of driving around several weekends and meals those days would add up, much less if needed hotel on scouting/planning trips.

Then as pointed out there's the signing commitments to hotels or large dinner reservations or arrangements like catered meals.

I like to think its relatively low risk with our members, and far as I know never have had problems......but as they are open and new members welcome......would think there's always a slight risk.....

I just checked the 2023 records. We had 11 late cancellations of previously confirmed participants for various understandable reasons. That was a 25% attrition rate. I don't know if that is representative since I was not involved in any other Musters. But it does illustrate the difficulty organizers have in arranging and booking hotels and dinners in advance on a guaranteed group basis.

I have put together a couple of mini-musters and both times I posted an open invitation here. A mini-muster is easy. You line up a tour guide on a day or weekend they are available and announce when and where you will meet up. You can coordinate pre- and post activities by PMs.

 

[stu613]

You are always welcome to join us on any trip we make. We just know how far away you are. I will make a better effort in the future to inform you of all meetups!

Thank you! Since I discovered CWT 3 years ago, it has been at the top of my list, mainly because of the people I have met. I have in the past, and will continue to, opt out/cancel out of organized commerical tours so that i can prioritize and attend CWT events, that is how much i enjoy and learn from them. Believe me that says a lot, as I am trying to cram in as much as possible before my health might start preventing me from enjoying the travelling.

 

[Diane123]

I just checked the 2023 records. We had 11 late cancellations of previously confirmed participants for various understandable reasons. That was a 25% attrition rate. I don't know if that is representative since I was not involved in any other Musters. But it does illustrate the difficulty organizers have in arranging and booking hotels and dinners in advance on a guaranteed group basis.

I have put together a couple of mini-musters and both times I posted an open invitation here. A mini-muster is easy. You line up a tour guide on a day or weekend they are available and announce when and where you will meet up. You can coordinate pre- and post activities by PMs.

Yes, that's an important point too! People get sick, have deaths in the family, have unexpected financial difficulties arise, all of which can cause a person to have to cancel at the last minute. If you have made a deal with the host hotel and don't have the number of rooms that was agreed to in the contract, everyone either loses their rate or the Quartermaster covers the difference, so there is a risk. We were fortunate to have a huge turnout despite the last minute cancellations!

 

[Josh The Lighthouse Guy]

But, there are two battles to learn at Manassas

Manassas could be a relatively simple Muster since it would involve a single NPS battlefield, covering the two battles on different days.

 

[Josh The Lighthouse Guy]

Someday I may be willing to organize a Mini-Muster for the Jacksonville area, but it won't be this year as my schedule is too loaded.