Common Misconceptions/Myths

[johan_steele]

All right. Not trying to argue one way or the other but there's something that maybe you could help me with. Lucius B. Northrop was very unpopular CSA Commissary General who appears to only have kept his job for so long because he was buddies with Davis. Here's a quote from that renowned source that's only a click away:

A considerable factor in the President's unpopularity with Congress and with the country at large was his persistent support of discredited officials. Unfortunately, some of those to whom he clung most tenaciously were men of mediocre abilities, while others were grossly incompetent. Lucius B. Northrop, the Confederate Commissary General, was, to say the least, not such a brilliant success as to be indispensable. Many leaders in the army, in Congress, and in the country at large came to regard him as hopelessly inefficient. But Davis had taken a stand for Northrop in the pre-war period, and he refused to heed the mounting criticism of him during the conflict. On January 18, 1865, J.B. Jones noted in his diary that Northrop was "still held by the president, contrary to the wishes of the entire Confederacy." Not until February, 1865, after the Confederate House of Representatives specifically demanded Northrop's dismissal, did Davis remove him. And he continued to defend him long after the clash of arms had ceased.[5] Wikipedia Lucius B. Northrop entry

The source for the quote is Bell I. Wiley who wrote Life of Johnny Reb and Life of Billy Yank.

There are also sources that observe after battles Yankee dead would be stripped of clothing. That observation comes from after the assault on Marye Heights at Fredericksburg.

Is this the photo you're referring to?

View attachment 376529

Yes, that is the photo among many others. A lot of analysis has been done of the "Punchbowl" picture in the last few years which depicts ANV POWs taken at the tail end of the war. It is one of the few extant pics of CS soldiers in the field as it was taken just after the capture of a large number of CS troops who had been on active campaign. It is a treasure trove of detail for the minutia addicted.

There is no doubt the supply situation was dire at times but at no time did a CS force take the field naked, or even close to it. US troops also suffered supply shortages while on active campaign, this was common among any 19th Century Army in the field on campaign. Men would literally walk out of their shoes. The ragged rebel is a myth created by the Lost Cause and its proponents. While the three men in the picture above are POWs and of the ANV (the best equipped force of the CS) they are often portrayed as shoeless, all but naked and starving. That just wasn't the reality. With all the difficulties the CS had creating an Army almost from whole cloth they did a stellar job of getting clothing, shoes and arms into the hands of the men who needed it. While there were times when men were short of everything from blankets to shoes that was the exception not the norm. These were men who took pride in themselves.

 

[archieclement]

If someone such has Newt Knight joined the Confedrate Army and then deserted and killed more Confederate's as a Unionist guerrlla then most enlisted Union soldiers then yes Knight was a Unionist and a darn good one.
Leftyhunter

No he is simply a deserter and an outlaw, and never recognised as in US service.......because he wasnt. Just as Union deserters are not Confederate.....

To say he was Unionist is another great example of a myth......as Unionist's actually don't volunteer against the Union.

 

[Stone in the wall]

"Commissary Banks" also did a fine job at supplying the needs of Confederate forces in the valley.

 

[GwilymT]

All right. Not trying to argue one way or the other but there's something that maybe you could help me with. Lucius B. Northrop was very unpopular CSA Commissary General who appears to only have kept his job for so long because he was buddies with Davis. Here's a quote from that renowned source that's only a click away:

A considerable factor in the President's unpopularity with Congress and with the country at large was his persistent support of discredited officials. Unfortunately, some of those to whom he clung most tenaciously were men of mediocre abilities, while others were grossly incompetent. Lucius B. Northrop, the Confederate Commissary General, was, to say the least, not such a brilliant success as to be indispensable. Many leaders in the army, in Congress, and in the country at large came to regard him as hopelessly inefficient. But Davis had taken a stand for Northrop in the pre-war period, and he refused to heed the mounting criticism of him during the conflict. On January 18, 1865, J.B. Jones noted in his diary that Northrop was "still held by the president, contrary to the wishes of the entire Confederacy." Not until February, 1865, after the Confederate House of Representatives specifically demanded Northrop's dismissal, did Davis remove him. And he continued to defend him long after the clash of arms had ceased.[5] Wikipedia Lucius B. Northrop entry

The source for the quote is Bell I. Wiley who wrote Life of Johnny Reb and Life of Billy Yank.

There are also sources that observe after battles Yankee dead would be stripped of clothing. That observation comes from after the assault on Marye Heights at Fredericksburg.

Is this the photo you're referring to?

View attachment 376529

Those men look rather well outfitted.

 

[leftyhunter]

No he is simply a deserter and an outlaw, and never recognised as in US service.......because he wasnt. Just as Union deserters are not Confederate.....

To say he was Unionist is another great example of a myth......as Unionist's actually don't volunteer against the Union.

Knight was an excellent Unionist who did great work for the Union. Unionist doesn't mean Union soldier it just means supporting the Union which Knight did suberbly well. Many Union soldiers in the thousands did at one time enlist first in the Confedrate Army.
Leftyhunter

 

[leftyhunter]

"Commissary Banks" also did a fine job at supplying the needs of Confederate forces in the valley.

So did Commissary Pemperton for the Union Army.
Leftyhunter

 

[GwilymT]

So did Commissary Pemperton for the Union Army.
Leftyhunter

Come on Lefty, his comment about Banks was both funny and true...

 

[leftyhunter]

Come on Lefty, his comment about Banks was both funny and true...

So is mine.
Leftyhunter

 

[Stone in the wall]

So did Commissary Pemperton for the Union Army.
Leftyhunter

Fair enough, if you consider rat's and mule's a good meal.

 

[leftyhunter]

Fair enough, if you consider rat's and mule's a good meal.

It would not be the last time US military personnel ate rats if Union troops are rats during the Vicksburg campaign. The Union captured quite a bit of artilery some of which most likely was ex Union.
Leftyhunter

 

[Stone in the wall]

It would not be the last time US military personnel ate rats if Union troops are rats during the Vicksburg campaign. The Union captured quite a bit of artilery some of which most likely was ex Union.
Leftyhunter

I didn't say Union troops are rats, or that they ate rats. Point was Pemperton had no food, or commissary goods. And yes forts do have artillery.

 

[CSA Today]

I read an account that North Carolina troops at Bentonville (March 19-21, 1865) were better dressed than Sherman's men. It is also a myth that North Carolina didn't issue uniforms to men from other states. At least at Bentonville, the state issued uniforms to out of state units especially to some of the troops from the Army of Tennessee who were somewhat ragged.

 

[Rio Bravo]

So is it a myth that Governor Vance of North Carolina hoarded 92,000 uniforms, plus vast quantities of blankets & shoe leather at a time when troops from other Confederate States went short ?

 

[CSA Today]

So is it a myth that Governor Vance of North Carolina hoarded 92,000 uniforms, plus vast quantities of blankets & shoe leather at a time when troops from other Confederate States went short ?

North Carolina was the poorest state in the Confederacy and was one of the poorer states in the United States in 1860 and yet it was the only state to uniform and largely equip its own troops. The state furnished between 125,000-130,000 troops to the CS -- the second-highest number of troops (after Va./W.Va.). I don't consider it hoarding to keep replacement uniforms and equipment for your own troops.

 

[archieclement]

Knight was an excellent Unionist who did great work for the Union. Unionist doesn't mean Union soldier it just means supporting the Union which Knight did suberbly well. Many Union soldiers in the thousands did at one time enlist first in the Confedrate Army.
Leftyhunter

Unionist does not mean one volunteers for the Confederate army at all.......and one could be a opportunist and flip flop around with the fortunes of war.....it does not indicate any strong ideology such as Unionist however, it actually indicates the lack of any allegiance or morals. It's an insult to those who did have a true allegiance.

 

[TnFed]

That all German-Americans in the Union Army were Communist. Though some certainly were.

 

[Rio Bravo]

A Civil War bullet impregnated a young Virginia Woman.............I don't think so !

 

[Irishtom29]

Fair enough, if you consider rat's and mule's a good meal.

The spoils of Vicksburg were its arms. Cannon have been mentioned. Many of Grant's musket armed soldiers were rearmed with rifles captured at Vicksburg.

 

[Stone in the wall]

The spoils of Vicksburg were its arms. Cannon have been mentioned. Many of Grant's musket armed soldiers were rearmed with rifles captured at Vicksburg.

How true, I started this about "Commissary Banks" nicknamed by Confederate soldiers for the food and other things he lost that they didn't have, but I'm sure they liked the better rifles they got.

 

[Mango Hill]

Those men look rather well outfitted.

Yes, they do indeed. I believe that photo (pre-colorized) was taken during the Maryland campaign, but I'm not sure. Does fly in the face of the Marylander's accounts (and even Virginian lady from Leesburg who is reported to have said "The Lord bless your dirty ragged souls") of the CSA troops they encountered marching. The thing is that Lucius B. Northrop had to have been doing a miserable job of supplying the troops in order to incur the wrath of so many. Probably not all, but many of the CSA troops were underfed and underclothed for such a period of time that it became a big issue.