Common Misconceptions/Myths

[atlantis]

One myth is that Davis betrayed his country. He resigned his senate seat after his state withdrew from the union before taking the office of CS president.

 

[Zack]

I hear a lot about fraternization among opposing soldiers, is that more myth or reality?

I always liked historian Lance Herdegan's comment on this (he's a scholar of the Iron Brigade):

"In many ways, the soldiers of both sides had more in common than what separated them. I think that examples of kindness between foes occurred with some regularity, but that did not mean both sides didn't try their best to kill each other. The stories of a Confederate soldier helping a Yank or a Yank helping a Johnny were seized upon by the veterans after the war as examples to be used in bringing the country back together. The stories of compassion were accepted and highlighted and the cruelty of combat put aside. It was all part of the great healing process. I think that is why we see so many of these romanced incidents in 19th century accounts."

Source: http://www.soldierstudies.org/index.php?action=herdegen01

 

[Sgt. Tyree]

".......what myth of the War would you most like to snap your fingers and remove from the collective memory of humanity?"

That Confederate cavalry and Confederate sharpshooting was superior to Union cavalry and Union sharpshooting, usually said to be so because the Confederates had a more rural upbringing.

Union cavalry may have gotten off to a slow start but it got to be effective. Very effective. And a plainsman or a backwoodsman from the north woods lived by his rifle as much as a backwoodsman from the south.

 

[archieclement]

Not Southern whites who didn't own slaves or owned slaves and rightly determined the secessionists were stupid. It would be more accurate to say based on actual enlistment rates of Confedrate soldiers that does who owned slaves or supported the interests of slave owners favored secession not that they were " defending their homes". Certainly Southeners of color didn't feel their homes were being threatened.
Leftyhunter

Actually many who were against secession, became ardent supporters of the cause once it passed, it was illustrated well at the Duncan house during muster.

Just because their political views lost, doesn't mean they didn't still identify as being part of their community, the Duncans remained Corinthians and Mississippian's, still quite willing to defend their home, city, and state.

Just as today most who lose a cause politically still consider themselves part of their local and state communities. Very few turn "terrorist" or guerrilla.

 

[GwilymT]

Actually many who were against secession, became ardent supporters of the cause once it passed, it was illustrated well at the Duncan house during muster.

Just because their political views lost, doesn't mean they didn't still identify as being part of their community, the Duncans remained Corinthians and Mississippian's, still quite willing to defend their home, city, and state.

Just as today most who lose a cause politically still consider themselves part of their local and state communities. Very few turn "terrorist" or guerrilla.

Wasn't the entire confederate endeavor a great exercise of a group of people losing a political argument and turning to rebellion?

 

[archieclement]

Wasn't the entire confederate endeavor a great exercise of a group of people losing a political argument and turning to rebellion?

Lefty was saying those who didn't own slaves or initially support secession were somehow Unionist all along, I just pointed out accounts and the numbers serving hardly support his conclusion.

And most citizens indeed followed their state and communities, that's who had gave them their citizenship. Just as in loyal states most citizens followed where their state went as well.

 

[leftyhunter]

Actually many who were against secession, became ardent supporters of the cause once it passed, it was illustrated well at the Duncan house during muster.

Just because their political views lost, doesn't mean they didn't still identify as being part of their community, the Duncans remained Corinthians and Mississippian's, still quite willing to defend their home, city, and state.

Just as today most who lose a cause politically still consider themselves part of their local and state communities. Very few turn "terrorist" or guerrilla.

Many civil wars end in some sort of settlement where the loosers are still part of the body politic .
The ACW is not an exception although many ex Confederate's did immigrate to other nations especially Brazil and some like Jo Shelby came back from his self exile in Mexico.
My main point was not all Southern whites felt like they were being invaded and supported Secession. The more slaves per capita the higher white support was for secession.
Leftyhunter

 

[leftyhunter]

Lefty was saying those who didn't own slaves or initially support secession were somehow Unionist all along, I just pointed out accounts and the numbers serving hardly support his conclusion.

And most citizens indeed followed their state and communities, that's who had gave them their citizenship. Just as in loyal states most citizens followed where their state went as well.

Also @GwilymT ,
I said in plain language no such thing. I just pointed out that there were more Unionists per capita in areas that had less slavery per capita and more Secessionists per capita in areas that had more slavery. I think speak for myself.
Leftyhunter

 

[leftyhunter]

What?

I meant Yankee Hordes which my phone which just know turned it in to horses.
Sorry for any confusion.
Leftyhunter

 

[archieclement]

Also @GwilymT ,
I said in plain language no such thing. I just pointed out that there were more Unionists per capita in areas that had less slavery per capita and more Secessionists per capita in areas that had more slavery. I think speak for myself.
Leftyhunter

Yes I forgot you count those who volunteered for the Confederate army as "Unionist".........I would count them as Confederate......as that's how they are actually counted......

But again most supported their states regardless of politics.

 

[leftyhunter]

Yes I forgot you count those who volunteered for the Confederate army as "Unionist".........I would count them as Confederate......as that's how they are actually counted......

But again most supported their states regardless of politics.

I said no such thing. As Professor Current and Williams noted Confedrate Army enlistment was higher in counties that had more slaves per capita and much lower in areas that had less slaves per capita. Unionist guerrillas were present in areas that low slaves per capita and non existent for the most part in counties that had high slaves per capita.
I never mentioned Confederate's that enlisted in the Union Army as Unionists although some did become Unionists latter.
Leftyhunter

 

[archieclement]

I said no such thing. As Professor Current and Williams noted Confedrate Army enlistment was higher in counties that had more slaves per capita and much lower in areas that had less slaves per capita. Unionist guerrillas were present in areas that low slaves per capita and non existent for the most part in counties that had high slaves per capita.
I never mentioned Confederate's that enlisted in the Union Army as Unionists although some did become Unionists latter.
Leftyhunter

Actually in repeated threads you have called people who enlisted in the CSA and never served in the US army at all Unionist, no need for you to pretend otherwise now. And in reality in such cases they just count as Confederate soldiers.

There's a class of people who I would simply call opportunists whose allegiance flip flopped around, hardly indicates any sincere ideological beliefs. As if they had strong convictions it wouldn't flip flop...Not surprising many criminals would fall into this catagory. Reckon to imply everyone was some strong ideologue for union, secession, slavery or abolition is also rather a myth.

 

[Stone in the wall]

I'm not sure if it's a myth or not but there seems to be a notion that Ewell should've or could've taken that hill. I'm not sure he should've and am pretty convinced he couldn't have.

I don't think Ewell could have taken it by himself, and he didn't either. That's why he asked Lee to have A P Hill's troops help him. The facts and all the rest is a long story.

 

[Mango Hill]

One myth is that Davis betrayed his country. He resigned his senate seat after his state withdrew from the union before taking the office of CS president.

That's a tough one @atlantis. From reading the oath Davis took to become a U. S. Senator " "I do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support the Constitution of the United States." I don't believe the oath expires once a person renounces his seat as Senator. Add that to the fact Davis accepted the presidency of the CSA, a nation that was at war with the the country he swore an allegiance to, and I believe that Davis should be tagged with being disloyal. I'm not a legal beagle or anything close to it so I'm just expressing my opinion as a lay person. I understand that Davis dared to be tried for treason to test the constitutionality of his act (or something to that effect) but was never tried, although he did spend a couple of years in prison and was indicted for treason, but the charge was dropped after President Johnson issued a pardon and a grant of amnesty to all involved in the insurrection in December of 1868.

To get at the nub of your post, I don't think it's a myth to say that Davis betrayed the U. S. because his action was never tried in court for political reasons.

 

[Mango Hill]

I have a couple of myths that I think have been misused by both sids of the political spectrum that have caused harm. That is the use of the Confederate Battle Flag as the actual formal flag of the CSA. Here's a short clip from YouTube that explains this issue better than I could put in words:

The clip does not address the harm it's cause. That's just my opinion based on the many years I've seen the Battle Flag used as a political symbol.

 

[Mango Hill]

The other myth had a short lifespan as to it's authenticity, but it's an interesting story which demonstrates how easy it is for events to get scrambled in such a way that they turn into real events unless evidence is produced to clear the air. This is the Barbara Frietchie story made famous by poet John Greenleaf Whittier.

 

[leftyhunter]

Actually in repeated threads you have called people who enlisted in the CSA and never served in the US army at all Unionist, no need for you to pretend otherwise now. And in reality in such cases they just count as Confederate soldiers.

There's a class of people who I would simply call opportunists whose allegiance flip flopped around, hardly indicates any sincere ideological beliefs. As if they had strong convictions it wouldn't flip flop...Not surprising many criminals would fall into this catagory. Reckon to imply everyone was some strong ideologue for union, secession, slavery or abolition is also rather a myth.

If someone such has Newt Knight joined the Confedrate Army and then deserted and killed more Confederate's as a Unionist guerrlla then most enlisted Union soldiers then yes Knight was a Unionist and a darn good one.
Leftyhunter

 

[Mango Hill]

Another possible myth that

No one has mentioned the myth of the ragged rebel? Well that is my absolute favorite Myth right alongside tens of thousands of Black Confederate soldiers fighting the evil US.

Why is the "ragged rebel" a myth? The army that passed through Frederick in the Maryland Campaign certainly fit that description.

 

[johan_steele]

Another possible myth that


Why is the "ragged rebel" a myth? The army that passed through Frederick in the Maryland Campaign certainly fit that description.

The CS actually did a good job of clothing and equipping their army. The legends of shoeless all but naked rebs doesn't hold up to research.
The famous pic of thre CS prisoners after Gettysburg does not bear out the myth and neither do the pics of CS POWs at the Punchbowl or elsewhere.

 

[Mango Hill]

The CS actually did a good job of clothing and equipping their army. The legends of shoeless all but naked rebs doesn't hold up to research.
The famous pic of thre CS prisoners after Gettysburg does not bear out the myth and neither do the pics of CS POWs at the Punchbowl or elsewhere.

All right. Not trying to argue one way or the other but there's something that maybe you could help me with. Lucius B. Northrop was very unpopular CSA Commissary General who appears to only have kept his job for so long because he was buddies with Davis. Here's a quote from that renowned source that's only a click away:

A considerable factor in the President's unpopularity with Congress and with the country at large was his persistent support of discredited officials. Unfortunately, some of those to whom he clung most tenaciously were men of mediocre abilities, while others were grossly incompetent. Lucius B. Northrop, the Confederate Commissary General, was, to say the least, not such a brilliant success as to be indispensable. Many leaders in the army, in Congress, and in the country at large came to regard him as hopelessly inefficient. But Davis had taken a stand for Northrop in the pre-war period, and he refused to heed the mounting criticism of him during the conflict. On January 18, 1865, J.B. Jones noted in his diary that Northrop was "still held by the president, contrary to the wishes of the entire Confederacy." Not until February, 1865, after the Confederate House of Representatives specifically demanded Northrop's dismissal, did Davis remove him. And he continued to defend him long after the clash of arms had ceased.[5] Wikipedia Lucius B. Northrop entry

The source for the quote is Bell I. Wiley who wrote Life of Johnny Reb and Life of Billy Yank.

There are also sources that observe after battles Yankee dead would be stripped of clothing. That observation comes from after the assault on Marye Heights at Fredericksburg.

Is this the photo you're referring to?