{⋆★⋆} MG Cleburne, Patrick R.

Patrick Ronayne Cleburne​

Born: March 17, 1828

Birthplace: Ovens County Cork Ireland

Father: Dr. Joseph Cleburne 1792 – 1843

Mother: Mary Ann Ronayne 1792 – 1829

Girlfriend: Susan Tarleton 1840 – 1868

(Buried: Magnolia Cemetery, Mobile, Alabama)​

Career in Europe:

1846 – 1849: Served in the British Army rising to rank of Corporal​

Occupation in United States:

Immigrated to the United States, settling in Helena, Arkansas​

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Worked as a Pharmacist in Helena, Arkansas​

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Half Owner of The Democratic Star Newspaper​

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1856: Wounded during a street fight in Helena, Arkansas, Shot in Back​

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Attorney in Helena, Arkansas​

Civil War Career:

Member of the Yell Rifles, Arkansas Militia​

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1861: Captain of Yell Rifles helped seize the U.S. Arsenal in Little Rock​

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1861 – 1862: Colonel of 15th​ Arkansas Infantry Regiment​

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1862: Brigadier General of Confederate Army Infantry​

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1862: Participated in the Battle of Shiloh​

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1862: Wounded in the face during the Battle of Richmond, Kentucky​

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1862: Participated in the Battle of Perryville​

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1862 – 1864: Commander of Confederate Infantry Division​

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1862: Routed the Union Army during the Battle of Stones River​

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1862 – 1864: Major General of Confederate Army Infantry​

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1863: Participated in the Battle of Chickamauga​

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1863: Conducted a night assault during the Battle of Wauhatchie​

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1863: Participated in the Battle of Missionary Ridge​

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1863: Protected the army of Tennessee, Battle of Ringgold, Georgia​

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1864: Suggested to Army commanders to arm and emancipate slaves​

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1864: Killed during the Battle of Franklin, Tennessee​

Died: November 30, 1864

Place of Death: Franklin, Tennessee

Cause of Death: Gun Shot wounds to the abdomen

Age at time of Death: 36 years old

1st​ Burial: Saint John's Episcopal Cemetery, Mount Pleasant, Tennessee

2nd​ Burial: Confederate Cemetery, Helena, Arkansas

 

[scone]

 

[Buckeye Bill]

* Ringgold Gap, Georgia

 

[Buckeye Bill]

My mother, who is from Lurgan, dislikes people from Cork almost as much as she dislikes people from Kerry. But she likes people from Mayo; most of the Irish I knew in Chicago were from Mayo, Galway and Sligo. But we had a few from Donegal, Armagh, Down and Derry.

I think I'll go listen to Thin Lizzy and Gary Moore.

Thin Lizzy is one of my all-time favorite bands. They should have been inducted into the Rock & Roll Hall of Fame in Cleveland by now!

Bill

 

[Tin cup]

Probably my favorite single figure from the period. One of the best Confederate generals of the war. His proposal is by and far the most fascinating document of the period, one of the greatest What ifs of the war.

That "proposal" wasn't seriously going to free anyone in the scheme of things.

Kevin Dally

 

[Tin cup]

I hope they recognize Cleburne for who he was. He never owned slaves, genuinely fought for the "liberation" of his adopted country, and saw slaves as equals to free white men in terms of soldiery (an opinion which flew in the face of the beliefs of most high ranking Confederates) and wanted them to be totally emancipated by the end of the war.
Granted, he did not want to give the newly freed men equal rights to whites, but compared to most of his contemporaries in the Confederate hierarchy, its quite progressive.

At one point in a letter Cleburne said of slaves that he cared nothing for them!
Cleburne's "proposal" has a very telling statement that few really look at, especially the part where Cleburne says: "It is said slaves will not work after they are freed. We think necessity and a wise legislation will compel them to labor for a living."

Jim Crow, anyone?

http://www.amazon.com/Confederate-Emancipation-Southern-Slaves-during/dp/0195315863/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1350239735&sr=1-1&keywords=confederate emancipation
deals with a lot of the details of the subject of arming Blacks in the South.
In a conversation with Congressman from Tennessee, Arthur St. Clair Colyar, Cleburne reasoned "if we take this step now, we can mold the relations, for all time to come, between the white and colored races. (And in that case) " we can control the negroes, and...they will still be our laborers as much as they now are; and, to all intents and purposes will be our servants at less cost than now."

So much for the freeing of the slaves!

Kevin Dally

 

[Irishtom29]

Thin Lizzy is one of my all-time favorite bands. They should have been inducted into the Rock & Roll Hall of Fame in Cleveland by now!

Bill

Yeah, a great band; I saw them a couple of times in their hey-day with Gorham and Robinson on guitar. Downey was a wonderful drummer, precise and hard driving and Phil: Christ, what can you say enough about the man? He always told a story. "I am just a cowboy, lonesome on the trail."

Ahh, the manly tear is coming.

 

[Tin cup]

Cleburne Statue in Cleburne, Texas.

Kevin Dally

 

[Luke Freet]

That "proposal" wasn't seriously going to free anyone in the scheme of things.

Kevin Dally

At one point in a letter Cleburne said of slaves that he cared nothing for them!
Cleburne's "proposal" has a very telling statement that few really look at, especially the part where Cleburne says: "It is said slaves will not work after they are freed. We think necessity and a wise legislation will compel them to labor for a living."

Jim Crow, anyone?

http://www.amazon.com/Confederate-Emancipation-Southern-Slaves-during/dp/0195315863/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1350239735&sr=1-1&keywords=confederate emancipation
deals with a lot of the details of the subject of arming Blacks in the South.
In a conversation with Congressman from Tennessee, Arthur St. Clair Colyar, Cleburne reasoned "if we take this step now, we can mold the relations, for all time to come, between the white and colored races. (And in that case) " we can control the negroes, and...they will still be our laborers as much as they now are; and, to all intents and purposes will be our servants at less cost than now."

So much for the freeing of the slaves!

Kevin Dally

I'll admit to a bit of embellishment here. I don't want to say Cleburne was a secret abolitionist deep down. But compared with contemporary Southerners, he at least acknowledges black slaves as being human beings, with human desires for freedom, and that they would have made as good soldiers as white men. This notion upset many of the officers at the meeting where he proposed the arming of slaves, who had been born and raised in the southern system, and many had owned slaves themselves, and refused to believe these people they had placed in chance were equal in stature and ability to their own "kind".
The only Confederate I've read of who deserve more respect than Cleburne in this regard was Captain Sam Foster, commanding a company in Granbury's Texas Brigade of Cleburne's division, who wrote in his diary (19th May 1865) about coming across a black girl going to school, quizzing her on her homework, and pondering on the thought of how, from then on (he believed), the black man would eventually be equal to the white man, that employment would be based on merit rather than color (a sentiment which would take another 98 years and the finest man to ever come out of my home state to be realized).

 

[Pete Longstreet]

I'll be honest... I didn't know much about General Cleburne until I heard Shelby Foote mention he was one of the greatest Generals of the war... so it got me interested in knowing more about him. I am now a fan General Cleburne.

 

[Irishtom29]

Well, I don't know that Cleburne was one of the best generals of the war but he was certainly a very capable division commander. I think his getting involved with Hardee in the anti Bragg business held him back from corps command; it's not unreasonable to think he would've been better than Hood, Lee or Stewart.

 

[Tin cup]

Well, I don't know that Cleburne was one of the best generals of the war but he was certainly a very capable division commander. I think his getting involved with Hardee in the anti Bragg business held him back from corps command; it's not unreasonable to think he would've been better than Hood, Lee or Stewart.

Given a big command at Jonesboro, didn't work out too well for him. What kept him "down" from higher command was he was a foreigner, and wasn't West Point trained. I don't believe his "Proposal" was at fault.

Kevin Dally

 

[Tin cup]

Cleburne is one of my favorite Confederate commanders, but I can't help but feel sad that he followed the southern mindset to his destruction.
I feel he should have been smarter than that.

Kevin Dally

 

[Luke Freet]

I'll be honest... I didn't know much about General Cleburne until I heard Shelby Foote mention he was one of the greatest Generals of the war... so it got me interested in knowing more about him. I am now a fan General Cleburne.

I found out about him stumbling on a poster of confederate generals in my 8th Grade "Georgia Studies" class. All the names were familiar: Lee, Stonewall, Bragg, Longstreet, Forrest, Wheeler. Then I see this one name i did not recognized. I read the little blurb, how he was Irish, and how he made a proposal to free the slaves. That...that would hook anyone's interest.

 

[Luke Freet]

Given a big command at Jonesboro, didn't work out too well for him. What kept him "down" from higher command was he was a foreigner, and wasn't West Point trained. I don't believe his "Proposal" was at fault.

Kevin Dally

At Jonesboro, he had just been advanced to Corps command, barely had time to grab the ropes before being thrust into action. The assualt on the first day, according to Craig Symonds, failed mostly because Lowrey, commanding Cleburne's division, misunderstood his orders and drifted too far away from the rest of the line. (Hot take: Lowrey was better off as the army's chaplain than as a commander).

Cleburne is one of my favorite Confederate commanders, but I can't help but feel sad that he followed the southern mindset to his destruction.
I feel he should have been smarter than that.

Kevin Dally

Keep in mind: Helena was Cleburne's home. He felt himself an outsider in Ireland, growing up in a well off anglican middle class family in a nation predominantly made up of poor catholic farmers, and it wasn't until he moved to Arkansas that he manage to make proper social connections. Its hard to imagine him wanting to break with the community that came to support him, when the community wanted to break away from the union. Though I don't believe he was a fenian, I do believe he had some sense of the idea of regional self rule to be appealing. For crying out loud, the man took a bullet for his pal Tom Hindman. I doubt he'd turn his back on him when Hindman threw his lot with the Confederacy.
I will admit, he may have seen more success and acclaim in the Union. I imagine he and Thomas would work well together. But...that is speculation. From what I read from Symonds, I don't see it within his character to abandon the one place he could call home.

 

[Cavalier]

@KianGaf Thats quite a house! Thanks for the photos.

John

 

[JPChurch]

I can't even understand people from County Cork.

Where was Maureen O' Hara from???? She could fake a good American accent when she needed to.

 

[KianGaf]

She was born in Dublin but how long she lived here I'm not sure.

 

[Randycmu]

W

There is a town of Cleburne here in Texas named after him. I wonder how long it will be until the PC crowd trys to get the citizens to change it's name?

well,he actually had a plan to allow slaves to fight for the south.It was shot down. But some might see him as a "good confederate". Plus he did not own slaves.

 

[Luke Freet]

Bumping for (Disputed) birthday. Happy Birthday to Patrick Ronayne Cleburne, the man whose description on a random poster made me fall down the rabbit hole of obsession with the American Civil War.

 

[gentlemanrob]

Bumping for (Disputed) birthday. Happy Birthday to Patrick Ronayne Cleburne, the man whose description on a random poster made me fall down the rabbit hole of obsession with the American Civil War.

Your a day ahead his birthday is not until tomorrow on Saint Patrick's Day I was going to add some stuff to this one tomorrow but here I will go ahead and post it.