Captain William C. Quantrill, CSA

[18thVirginia]

Do you have a source for this, not Anderson but the other members? Quantrill, was a harmless school teacher before his involvement.

I thought that Quantrill had already killed someone before he started using the Civil War as a cover for his own bloodthirsty acts. And that he was a drifter and ne'er do well long before he took up being a full-time criminal.

 

[101combatvet]

I thought that Quantrill had already killed someone before he started using the Civil War as a cover for his own bloodthirsty acts. And that he was a drifter and ne'er do well long before he took up being a full-time criminal.

Maybe, I just don't recall those details, but it has been awhile since I read about him.

 

[18thVirginia]

I would agree, those that think they were psychopaths don't consider the other side as such. The one sided dogma continues like the energizer bunny.

Pardon me, but I think there is considerable dogma in your attempts to rationalize and excuse the behavior of psychopaths because they called themselves Confederates.

Bill Anderson was a horse thief before he started killing people in more public and gruesome ways under the ruse of being a "guerrilla." Anyone who has ever driven across West Texas or New Mexico or the Great Plains understands that there was a reason they hung horse thieves, because they were basically murderers who left people to die without a horse in very unforgiving country.

The good folks of North Texas, who hadn't lived through the years of the blood feud in Missouri but were part of the Confederacy, wanted these criminals gone from their neighborhood.

 

[Patrick H]

Bloody Bill Anderson seems to have been your basic psychopath, whose love of killing people was maybe enhanced by being with Quantrill. But probably only in that riding with Quantrill left him more unfettered in his ability to kill others. I used to work with kids who'd been incarcerated and they were pretty tough. But they were all afraid of the one kid who was about 18 and a definite psychopath. They, the tough kids, believed that he was incredibly dangerous and should be held in permanent pre-emptive custody.

The adults who dealt with him also thought he was about the most dangerous individual they'd seen--and they'd dealt with adult criminals in maximum security.

According to what I've read, it's known that Bloody Bill had killed a Kaw Indian before he hooked up with Quantrill. My guess would be that there were other killings by Bill Anderson that were undiscovered.

Quantrill and his gang were common criminals--there's just no way to dress it up. These weren't guerrillas, they were a gang of criminals fighting for nothing more than their own need to be lawless. Some of the gangs may have been men who got caught up in the blood feuds that became part of Missouri-Kansas history and left the gang, but Anderson and Quantrill were just bad guys.

18th, that's the way they are usually judged today. That's what I always used to believe, too--because I read and was influenced by all the things that we've all read and heard. In fact, they were being judged as common criminals by the union army very early in the war. There were numerous orders written for them to be summarily executed upon capture. That, in itself, is a pretty good reason not to surrender. But, just remember that all of these judgements were made by their enemies and after the war the victors got to write the history. Of course, there were some apologists like John Newman Edwards. But there wasn't a lot of objective reporting done for a very long time. Even William Connelly (who is not friendly to Quantrill in his writings) saw that some of these boys were good, brave soldiers. Connelly actually interviewed many of the guerrillas after the war. The Missouri guerrillas really shouldn't all be judged alike, because they weren't alike. I think Anderson became psycho (if he wasn't previously) when his sister died. He might have been all along. Jesse James became a very bad man--cleverly bad. With John Edwards's help, he spun a legend around himself during his post war criminal career. Frank James was as tough a soldier as there was in Quantrill's company, but was not a wanton murderer. He is known to have spared a number of enemy soldiers--particularly fellow Freemasons. He grew tired of his post war outlaw career and surrendered to the governor of Missouri. He lived a quiet, peaceful life ever afterwards, and was well respected by many--and seen as a sort of curiosity by others. And, as I've said earlier in the thread, Quantrill seems to me to have had a dual personality.
He is still considered a great Missouri hero by many, and he is still considered a vicious murderer by many. He probably deserves both judgements.

 

[101combatvet]

Pardon me, but I think there is considerable dogma in your attempts to rationalize and excuse the behavior of psychopaths because they called themselves Confederates.

Bill Anderson was a horse thief before he started killing people in more public and gruesome ways under the ruse of being a "guerrilla." Anyone who has ever driven across West Texas or New Mexico or the Great Plains understands that there was a reason they hung horse thieves, because they were basically murderers who left people to die without a horse in very unforgiving country.

The good folks of North Texas, who hadn't lived through the years of the blood feud in Missouri but were part of the Confederacy, wanted these criminals gone from their neighborhood.

No, not really, but thanks for labeling me. Unlike, some I can't single just him out, the other side had their share of killers as well. Are you saying that it was okay for atrocities to be committed under Old Glory? I don't have the specific details of Anderson's theft, does anyone?

 

[leftyhunter]

Do you have a source for this, not Anderson but the other members? Quantrill, was a harmless school teacher before his involvement.

Actually not so much. Quantrill in the book you quoted above at first joined a Jayhawker gang but betrayed them to the border ruffians.
Leftyhunter

 

[101combatvet]

Actually not so much. Quantrill in the book you quoted above at first joined a Jayhawker gang but betrayed them to the border ruffians.
Leftyhunter

I meant previous criminal conduct. Tracing the background of all would be interesting.

 

[Buckeye Bill]

Let us remain civil, my friends.

Never forget.....

There were heroes and villians on both sides!

Bill

 

[Tumbleweed]

I don't have the specific details of Anderson's theft, does anyone?

In the book, Bloody Bill Anderson, authors Castel and Goodrich have some information on his background but not enough to get a full picture. It is known that he had been working for a neighbor and was considered "a good boy, steady as a clock." His mother was killed by lightning and, according to the authors, that's when things started going wrong. He then began his forays into horse theft as he worked accompanying wagon trains on the Santa Fe Trail. His father was killed either in a dispute with a man who courted and then dumped his teenage daughter, or murdered by Jayhawkers, depending on what source you want to believe. Then Bill and younger brother, Jim, formed a band of bushwhackers and later on joined up with William Quantrill.

 

[101combatvet]

Pardon me, but I think there is considerable dogma in your attempts to rationalize and excuse the behavior of psychopaths because they called themselves Confederates.

Wait a minute, you call these Confederates psychopaths, but you voted "no" in the "Was John Brown Insane? (poll)." I sense a little bias here.

 

[Poor Private]

Soldier violating the rules of war.

I didn't now there was rules to war. The object was to kill or be killed, and win the battles.

 

[Poor Private]

It's interesting thread thats going on.
Today at Jacksons Civil War Muster, I picked up a book that looks like a nice read.
"BLACK FLAG Guerrilla Warfare on the Western Border, 1861-1865". By Thomas Goodrich, published by Indiana University Press. 172 pages including index.

 

[diane]

I don't think Quantrill was a psychopath but Anderson sure was. There's a certain alien chilliness about collecting the type of souvenirs he did as casually as he did. As I mentioned before, some psychos go all their lives seeming to be mostly normal and some have an event that outs them. That's what happened to Anderson, imho. Many other people lost their families and had much wrong done to them, even enough to crack them a little or a lot, but few turned to murder with the gusto Anderson did. I do not think he would have stopped with the end of the war if he had not been killed.

 

[101combatvet]

I don't think Quantrill was a psychopath but Anderson sure was. There's a certain alien chilliness about collecting the type of souvenirs he did as casually as he did. As I mentioned before, some psychos go all their lives seeming to be mostly normal and some have an event that outs them. That's what happened to Anderson, imho. Many other people lost their families and had much wrong done to them, even enough to crack them a little or a lot, but few turned to murder with the gusto Anderson did. I do not think he would have stopped with the end of the war if he had not been killed.

Native Americans collected souvenirs.

 

[damYankee]

Like in the movie Outlaw Josey Wales - Josey's sitting on the graves of his wife and son and up rides Bloody Bill. Want revenge? Yep. Come on... Sometimes I think that's exactly what happened in real life! Quantrill hatched Jesse James along with Archie Clement and Bill Anderson but they were considerably worse after they left his command. I do think Quantrill was wobbly in the upper story, but there was something about the situation in that area that seemed to bring out the loose screws in otherwise maintainable people. John Brown, for instance. Not insane, not sane either.

Josey Wales is a good work of fiction.

 

[diane]

Native Americans collected souvenirs.

Why?

 

[diane]

Josey Wales is a good work of fiction.

Josey left Anderson's band quickly but his temporary association with is what got him the outlaw tag. That and not surrendering...which turned out to be a good choice at the time!

 

[damYankee]

Here is a good video about Asa Carter.

http://www.itvs.org/films/reconstruction-of-asa-carter

 

[damYankee]

http://www.infoplease.com/biography/var/asacarter.html

 

[101combatvet]

Why?

You mentioned why earlier. I actually wouldn't do it myself but can except those that did throughout history.