What is this? Button

[kcox418]

Found at an old home site. Best I could find is old USMC button.

 

[UCVRelics]

It is indeed a USMC button. Can you make out an of the back mark?

 

[kcox418]

It is indeed a USMC button. Can you make out an of the back mark?

I can't. I've used a magnifier and can't get a read on anything.

 

[lelliott19]

If you could maybe get a picture with better light on the right side (as it appears in this image) maybe we coudl figure it out?

 

[kcox418]

If you could maybe get a picture with better light on the right side (as it appears in this image) maybe we coudl figure it out?
View attachment 369221

 

[kcox418]

That better?

 

[UCVRelics]

I can't. I've used a magnifier and can't get a read on anything.

Can you make out an letters at all?

 

[lelliott19]

Leaving the light source in the same place, can you rotate the button around so that the part marked with the star is up where the arrow is pointing?

 

[UCVRelics]

Is it a coat or cuff button?

 

[kcox418]

Leaving the light source in the same place, can you rotate the button around so that the part marked with the star is up where the arrow is pointing?
View attachment 369223

 

[kcox418]

Is it a coat or cuff button?

 

[lelliott19]

I can't make out any of the letters but maybe someone who is familiar with the backmarks can recognize the sequence of shapes and translate them into letters?

 

[kcox418]

I can't make out any of the letters but maybe someone who is familiar with the backmarks can recognize the sequence of shapes and translate them into letters?
View attachment 369229

I've tried over and over to make something out. Thanks for looking ..

 

[UCVRelics]

Being a cuff button and from the button face design and back mark construction in leaning "WALTON BRO,S / (slash) N. Y. (slash)" manufactured well after the Civil War

 

[bobinwmass]

There does appear to be an "L" at about 1 o'clock in the final posted photo. I was wondering if it may be a Scovill backmark, which is hard to date on cuff buttons as the markings were similar from 1860 to the late 1800's. If it is a Walton Bros marking, in their book "Directory of American Military Good Dealers & Makers", authors Bazelon & McGuinn report that the Walton name is on Civil War period Army and USMC buttons, and that their involvement in military goods probably dates only to the Civil War.

 

[UCVRelics]

Scovill never made a 19mm cuff button with a back made like this one. Walton Brothers operated in New York from 1858 to beyond the Civil War. They obtained a patent for a hat in 1862 and they seemed to have dealt exclusively with the US Marines, they probably subcontracted the buttons with Scovill and sold hats and uniforms. After the Civil War they made industrial machinery and the production of military goods appears to have been limited to the Civil War and not beyond. (Bazelon & McGuinn). Tice states in his backmark book that they probably did not sell buttons bearing their name until after the Civil War.

photo courtesy of Harry Ridgeway

 

[bobinwmass]

That's one of the things that makes dating some buttons precisely so difficult. Bazelon and McGuinn's book came out in 1999 and they feel the buttons are Civil War. Tice's "Uniform Buttons of the United States 1776-1865" came out about same time, 1998. In it Tice appears unsure, as after the example with the Walton backmark he notes "Civil War?" Who are we to believe when the experts don't agree?

 

[UCVRelics]

That's one of the things that makes dating some buttons precisely so difficult. Bazelon and McGuinn's book came out in 1999 and they feel the buttons are Civil War. Tice's "Uniform Buttons of the United States 1776-1865" came out about same time, 1998. In it Tice appears unsure, as after the example with the Walton backmark he notes "Civil War?" Who are we to believe when the experts don't agree?

Albert.

 

[bobinwmass]

Albert.

For those of you who do not have a copy of Alphaeus Albert's "Record of American Uniform and Historical Buttons", he simply lists the Walton Bros backmark as 1860's, with no opinion as to early enough for Civil War or not. So of all 3 mentioned experts, he does have the better chance of being right.

 

[UCVRelics]

For those of you who do not have a copy of Alphaeus Albert's "Record of American Uniform and Historical Buttons", he simply lists the Walton Bros backmark as 1860's, with no opinion as to early enough for Civil War or not. So of all 3 mentioned experts, he does have the better chance of being right.

When dealing with CW dug buttons and you can't read the back-mark, face design and back construction are key in IDing. Scovill NEVER made a USMC 19mm button with this face die design or back and thread eye.

Photos courtesy of Harry Ridgeway.

Scovill

Walton