'48DRAGOONS
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- Joined
- Aug 7, 2017
BUTT DENTS, BLOOD, AND LONG BUMPY RIDES
(photos may not have come through)
Collectors of original antique weapons usually want examples that are in the best condition they can afford. Fine condition seems to impart a certain sense of nobility to the piece, and to one's pride of ownership of it. Given the opportunity to acquire a Civil War period Colt Navy revolver with a smooth finish and a pleasing overall patina, as opposed to the same period Navy with numerous dings, dents, corrosion, cracked grips, or heavily worn edges, the fine piece will be pursued by virtually every collector, and the scarred, scraped, ugly duckling cousin will be left to languish in repeated online auctions. That's because pride of ownership usually extends only to the beautiful - no matter what the item in question happens to be.
PROVENANCE AND HISTORY
Notable exceptions to this 'Rule of Beauty' are those old, sometimes beat up weapons that carry with them provenance of ownership by a certain person or use in a certain situation. Like beauty, provenance dictates price.
For example, a common 1921 Colt Thompson sub machine gun today is worth around $30,000 to $40,000 in good condition. Yet nearly twenty years ago a '21 Thompson with the serial numbers defaced and deep scrapes all over it that was used to shoot up a tavern on the south side of Chicago in 1928 and was then thrown from a car, was valued at nearly a quarter of a million dollars...because it was thrown from that car by Al Capone. Completely rusted and broken pistols found at the Little Bighorn have sold for tens of thousands of dollars while other pistols of that era in decent condition are worth a fraction of that.
Written, photographic , or other verifiable provenance is always best, but sometimes the weapon's history speaks for itself.
BUTT DENTS
For example, dents are frequently seen on the butts of some antique pistols. Common lore in the era of old cowboy movies was that the gun's butt was used to pound tacks through Wanted posters, or to drive nails into fence posts. If you were a Sheriff or cowboy in the 1880's and owned a valuable asset like a nice Colt pistol, the last thing you would use it for would be to hit nails with it. None of us would use a pistol to do that today, and no one would have done such things in the 19th century. Nor were pistols used to pound tent stakes into the ground. Tent stakes were pushed into the ground by standing on them. If the ground was too hard for that the butt of a pistol wouldn't help and a heavy mallet would be necessary. It is sometimes said that kids in the 1950's who had an old percussion pistol to play with would beat things with it. Kids who were fortunate enough to have an old percussion pistol to play with back then took care of it and treated it like gold. So how did those dents get there? For one thing, consider exactly what type of pistols those dents are seen on. You don't usually see them on 19th century Colt Single Action Army cartridge guns, either black powder or early smokeless, even those that saw a lot of use. But many percussion pistols made prior to the end of the Civil War in 1865 have lots of butt dents. The reason why percussion pistols often have them and later cartridge guns don't is because percussion pistols used in battle during the Civil War had to be cleaned by knocking out the wedge holding the barrel and cylinder in place. Without a hammer to do this during lulls in battle, the butt of one gun was used to knock the wedge out of another, leaving lots of dents in the metal and wood of the butt. Occasionally one will see dents and scrapes on the strap of the trigger guard on percussion pistols caused by attempts to start a bullet down the barrel of a single shot weapon.
BLOOD CORROSION
Sometimes one sees pistols that have odd patterns of deep, irregular corrosion. Sometimes just on one side of the weapon or just in one area. Much of that sort of irregular corrosion didn't come from having been left in the rain, as the whole gun would have rusted and the effects of that rust would appear differently than deep irregular corrosion.
While there may be other reasons for corrosion to develop on metal surfaces, the sort of irregular corrosion I'm referring to is corrosion that may have resulted from those pistols having laid for hours or even days in puddles of blood when dropped by dead or dying soldiers. Or left in a bloody holster for a period of time. Blood corrosion occurs quickly and is irreversible. Occasionally one may encounter a pistol that exhibits a pattern that suggests it was held in a death grip by a soldier whose bloody fingers left behind a discernible grip pattern on the metal. Recently up for auction was a Civil War Pocket Navy that rather graphically showed such a pattern.
OTHER NICKS, DENTS, SCRAPES, AND DINGS
What about old guns that have nicks and dents all over the metal and wood, as well as scrapes and dings that are sometimes deep or in inexplicable patterns? Some of us have carried the same pistol for many, many years and it doesn't show any signs of abuse like that. Looking at those nicks and dents on a Civil War era pistol can make you wonder how the hell did all this damage happen? This sort of thing is usually seen on pistols made before 1865 that were used in Civil War battles. Sometimes those battles had tens of thousands of combatants, many of whom died or were wounded during the fighting. Which ever side had possession of the field at the end of the battle would have dozens of soldiers in wagons going around picking up any weapons left behind. This often resulted in thousands of pistols and rifles being tossed into those wagons for a long, hard, and bumpy ride back to camp where they would be cleaned up and reissued to the troops. While some weapons would be picked up by combatants leaving the field, the ones that got a day or two's wagon ride may have acquired much of those scrapes and dents we see today. It's possible that a given pistol or rifle could have changed hands between Union and Confederate troops a number of times over the years of the Civil War, and had a number of those bumpy rides. Again, this sort of damage is not seen anywhere near as often on post Civil War cartridge pistols.
AFTER THE WAR
The battles in the Indian Wars, the Wild West encounters between bandits and lawmen, and even the battles with Mexico up through the 1920's were largely fought with cartridge weapons, and were not fought in the manner of the Civil War. They did not have the huge numbers of combatants and weapons. Those battles were more in the nature of skirmishes than prolonged dug in battles where there were fifty thousand or even more soldiers on the battlefield. Most likely, guns that were dropped were soon picked up by departing combatants and didn't get a long rough wagon ride.
Pistols were not considered to be primary weapons by Union troops, and some of those carried saw limited action and came through the War in very good condition.
While corrosion, dents and other damage could happen to an old pistol for various reasons, Civil War era pistols seem to have more of it. The War was brutal on the combatants and their equipment, and many of the guns used show it in those dents, scrapes and corrosion. How ever an antique Civil War gun may have suffered damage, most of the pistols we see today that have the dings, dents, and deep corrosion mentioned above are a hard sell at gun shows or in internet auctions. But when you see one of these guns stop for a moment to feel what it might be saying to you about where it's been.
Bill Jonke
Butt dents on Third Model Dragoon.
1860 Army with grip strap dents, likely from starting bullets down the barrels of percussion rifles or single shot pistols.
Irregular pattern of corrosion on barrel of an early 1862 Pocket Navy.
Corrosion on barrel of same 1862 Pocket Navy
Other side of 1862 Pocket Navy with corrosion
Odd nicks and dents on early 1862 Pocket Police
Sent from my iPhone
(photos may not have come through)
Collectors of original antique weapons usually want examples that are in the best condition they can afford. Fine condition seems to impart a certain sense of nobility to the piece, and to one's pride of ownership of it. Given the opportunity to acquire a Civil War period Colt Navy revolver with a smooth finish and a pleasing overall patina, as opposed to the same period Navy with numerous dings, dents, corrosion, cracked grips, or heavily worn edges, the fine piece will be pursued by virtually every collector, and the scarred, scraped, ugly duckling cousin will be left to languish in repeated online auctions. That's because pride of ownership usually extends only to the beautiful - no matter what the item in question happens to be.
PROVENANCE AND HISTORY
Notable exceptions to this 'Rule of Beauty' are those old, sometimes beat up weapons that carry with them provenance of ownership by a certain person or use in a certain situation. Like beauty, provenance dictates price.
For example, a common 1921 Colt Thompson sub machine gun today is worth around $30,000 to $40,000 in good condition. Yet nearly twenty years ago a '21 Thompson with the serial numbers defaced and deep scrapes all over it that was used to shoot up a tavern on the south side of Chicago in 1928 and was then thrown from a car, was valued at nearly a quarter of a million dollars...because it was thrown from that car by Al Capone. Completely rusted and broken pistols found at the Little Bighorn have sold for tens of thousands of dollars while other pistols of that era in decent condition are worth a fraction of that.
Written, photographic , or other verifiable provenance is always best, but sometimes the weapon's history speaks for itself.
BUTT DENTS
For example, dents are frequently seen on the butts of some antique pistols. Common lore in the era of old cowboy movies was that the gun's butt was used to pound tacks through Wanted posters, or to drive nails into fence posts. If you were a Sheriff or cowboy in the 1880's and owned a valuable asset like a nice Colt pistol, the last thing you would use it for would be to hit nails with it. None of us would use a pistol to do that today, and no one would have done such things in the 19th century. Nor were pistols used to pound tent stakes into the ground. Tent stakes were pushed into the ground by standing on them. If the ground was too hard for that the butt of a pistol wouldn't help and a heavy mallet would be necessary. It is sometimes said that kids in the 1950's who had an old percussion pistol to play with would beat things with it. Kids who were fortunate enough to have an old percussion pistol to play with back then took care of it and treated it like gold. So how did those dents get there? For one thing, consider exactly what type of pistols those dents are seen on. You don't usually see them on 19th century Colt Single Action Army cartridge guns, either black powder or early smokeless, even those that saw a lot of use. But many percussion pistols made prior to the end of the Civil War in 1865 have lots of butt dents. The reason why percussion pistols often have them and later cartridge guns don't is because percussion pistols used in battle during the Civil War had to be cleaned by knocking out the wedge holding the barrel and cylinder in place. Without a hammer to do this during lulls in battle, the butt of one gun was used to knock the wedge out of another, leaving lots of dents in the metal and wood of the butt. Occasionally one will see dents and scrapes on the strap of the trigger guard on percussion pistols caused by attempts to start a bullet down the barrel of a single shot weapon.
BLOOD CORROSION
Sometimes one sees pistols that have odd patterns of deep, irregular corrosion. Sometimes just on one side of the weapon or just in one area. Much of that sort of irregular corrosion didn't come from having been left in the rain, as the whole gun would have rusted and the effects of that rust would appear differently than deep irregular corrosion.
While there may be other reasons for corrosion to develop on metal surfaces, the sort of irregular corrosion I'm referring to is corrosion that may have resulted from those pistols having laid for hours or even days in puddles of blood when dropped by dead or dying soldiers. Or left in a bloody holster for a period of time. Blood corrosion occurs quickly and is irreversible. Occasionally one may encounter a pistol that exhibits a pattern that suggests it was held in a death grip by a soldier whose bloody fingers left behind a discernible grip pattern on the metal. Recently up for auction was a Civil War Pocket Navy that rather graphically showed such a pattern.
OTHER NICKS, DENTS, SCRAPES, AND DINGS
What about old guns that have nicks and dents all over the metal and wood, as well as scrapes and dings that are sometimes deep or in inexplicable patterns? Some of us have carried the same pistol for many, many years and it doesn't show any signs of abuse like that. Looking at those nicks and dents on a Civil War era pistol can make you wonder how the hell did all this damage happen? This sort of thing is usually seen on pistols made before 1865 that were used in Civil War battles. Sometimes those battles had tens of thousands of combatants, many of whom died or were wounded during the fighting. Which ever side had possession of the field at the end of the battle would have dozens of soldiers in wagons going around picking up any weapons left behind. This often resulted in thousands of pistols and rifles being tossed into those wagons for a long, hard, and bumpy ride back to camp where they would be cleaned up and reissued to the troops. While some weapons would be picked up by combatants leaving the field, the ones that got a day or two's wagon ride may have acquired much of those scrapes and dents we see today. It's possible that a given pistol or rifle could have changed hands between Union and Confederate troops a number of times over the years of the Civil War, and had a number of those bumpy rides. Again, this sort of damage is not seen anywhere near as often on post Civil War cartridge pistols.
AFTER THE WAR
The battles in the Indian Wars, the Wild West encounters between bandits and lawmen, and even the battles with Mexico up through the 1920's were largely fought with cartridge weapons, and were not fought in the manner of the Civil War. They did not have the huge numbers of combatants and weapons. Those battles were more in the nature of skirmishes than prolonged dug in battles where there were fifty thousand or even more soldiers on the battlefield. Most likely, guns that were dropped were soon picked up by departing combatants and didn't get a long rough wagon ride.
Pistols were not considered to be primary weapons by Union troops, and some of those carried saw limited action and came through the War in very good condition.
While corrosion, dents and other damage could happen to an old pistol for various reasons, Civil War era pistols seem to have more of it. The War was brutal on the combatants and their equipment, and many of the guns used show it in those dents, scrapes and corrosion. How ever an antique Civil War gun may have suffered damage, most of the pistols we see today that have the dings, dents, and deep corrosion mentioned above are a hard sell at gun shows or in internet auctions. But when you see one of these guns stop for a moment to feel what it might be saying to you about where it's been.
Bill Jonke
Butt dents on Third Model Dragoon.
1860 Army with grip strap dents, likely from starting bullets down the barrels of percussion rifles or single shot pistols.
Irregular pattern of corrosion on barrel of an early 1862 Pocket Navy.
Corrosion on barrel of same 1862 Pocket Navy
Other side of 1862 Pocket Navy with corrosion
Odd nicks and dents on early 1862 Pocket Police
Sent from my iPhone
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