Burnside Carbine Mod 5 serial hunt

[Longstreetkin]

I am looking to find any information on my Burnside carbine, Mod 5, S/N 5192. Any direction you could point me in would be greatly appreciated.

 

[Seduzal]

Welcome to CWT from the Smoky Mountain side of North Carolina. Just wait a little while, someone will be along to answer your questions.

 

[Rustycannon]

I can share a few tidbits about an early 5th model Burnside... since I just acquired serial #1654. Serial number 1654 is on the top of the breech, the top of the receiver, inside the breech and on the underside of the barrel under the forestock. I initially thought that there were only three places that the serial number was stamped... did not know that it was on the underside of the barrel. Two visible cartouches are at the left wrist... one appears to be "GC." It has many inspector marks on various parts but what is interesting is that the underside of the butt plate has '25 over 127' stamped in the top.

Anyway... I have nothing regarding identifying the Regiment or the individual who carried the carbine... just a few tidbits.
I also acquired a couple of relic/dug Burnside .54 caliber shell casings located at East Calvary Battlefield in Gettysburg which is kind of neat.

 

[UCVRelics]

Welcome from The Heart of Dixie. Your Burnside serial # 5192 was part of a lot issued to 5th Ohio Vol Cav in April 1863. The records show that 5163 thru 5228 being issued to Company L. Have a GREAT Memorial Day Weekend

 

[7th Mississippi Infantry]

Welcome to CivilWarTalk.
You've received some great information.

 

[MRB1863]

Hello and welcome from 35 miles north of Gettysburg! Nice to see your question answered!!!

 

[Longstreetkin]

I can share a few tidbits about an early 5th model Burnside... since I just acquired serial #1654. Serial number 1654 is on the top of the breech, the top of the receiver, inside the breech and on the underside of the barrel under the forestock. I initially thought that there were only three places that the serial number was stamped... did not know that it was on the underside of the barrel. Two visible cartouches are at the left wrist... one appears to be "GC." It has many inspector marks on various parts but what is interesting is that the underside of the butt plate has '25 over 127' stamped in the top.

Anyway... I have nothing regarding identifying the Regiment or the individual who carried the carbine... just a few tidbits.
I also acquired a couple of relic/dug Burnside .54 caliber shell casings located at East Calvary Battlefield in Gettysburg which is kind of neat.

Thanks Rustycannon. I appreciate your answering and your information.

 

[Longstreetkin]

Welcome to CWT from the Smoky Mountain side of North Carolina. Just wait a little while, someone will be along to answer your questions.

Welcome from The Heart of Dixie. Your Burnside serial # 5192 was part of a lot issued to 5th Ohio Vol Cav in April 1863. The records show that 5163 thru 5228 being issued to Company L. Have a GREAT Memorial Day Weekend

Well as usual Mississippi leads the way. Much thanks to you sir. l

 

[Longstreetkin]

Welcome to CWT from the Smoky Mountain side of North Carolina. Just wait a little while, someone will be along to answer your questions.

You were right. And thank you for that warm Southern welcome.

 

[Longstreetkin]

Hello and welcome from 35 miles north of Gettysburg! Nice to see your question answered!!!

My wife and I spend every May in Gettysburg. Love the Town. I have 3 ancestors buried in the National Cemetery there, and I am proud of every soldier, North and South that struggled there.

 

[Rustycannon]

Wow... you received a fantastic Memorial Day present!

 

[rob63]

Welcome from The Heart of Dixie. Your Burnside serial # 5192 was part of a lot issued to 5th Ohio Vol Cav in April 1863. The records show that 5163 thru 5228 being issued to Company L. Have a GREAT Memorial Day Weekend

FWIW, I would dispute that. The records show that number 5163 and number 5228 were issued to Co. L. 5th OH. They say nothing whatsoever about the guns between those numbers. There is no such thing as a range match, if there was such a thing how would you explain the following records?

4740 - - 04 63 - CO L 5TH OHIO VOL CAV -
4752 - - 03 63 - CO L 18TH PENNA VOL CAV -
4756 - - 04 63 - CO L 5TH OHIO VOL CAV -

If 4740 thru 4756 were issued to the 5th OH, then 4752 couldn't have been issued to the 18th Penna, but the records say it was. If you look through the records the randomness illustrated above is what they typically look like; you can't make assumptions about the guns that weren't recorded. Here's another way of looking at it: the lowest serial number recorded as issued to Co. L, 5th OH is 4017, the highest is 5262. That is a spread of 1245! There were most certainly not that many carbines issued to a single cavalry company of 100 men.

The records either match exactly, or they do not. In this case, there is no match.

 

[Jobe Holiday]

Sage advice from Rob63! There has been much discussion here in the past as to why serial numbers have to be an exact match.
J.

 

[UCVRelics]

My Grandfather taught me not to go off 1/2 cocked, wait a few days, Think things thru and then go off FULL cocked. Rob63 is absolutely right and I stand corrected. Frank did a fantastic job in putting together the research for the SSR but it is far from a complete record. On 3 occasions I had the opportunity to do serial # research at the NA when stationed in DC. I'm going to try and find the copies of the microfilm I copied and post it but that was a long time ago. I saw many examples where gun lots were issued and the ordnance officer doing the recording would just do the first line and then either draw a line straight down each column to the next lot, some times they would write the serial numbers and draw lines for the Company and Regiment etc. Some of these Frank did not record that way if at all and has always stated that it's not a complete record.

There have always been discussions about this and I guess what I'm getting at is the SSR would be like the Readers Digest condensed version of a book and the National Archives THE book. The article below explains a lot about this process.

Firearms Genealogy
The Impossible Takes Longer
By Michael P. Musick
The information most sought after in ordnance records is data on the issuance of arms by serial number. Those familiar with twentieth-century records often assume that official records of some kind will enable the possessor of a particular Colt percussion Army Model 1860 revolver (for example) to learn the name and unit of the person who received serial number 120055. That is not true— at least, not entirely true.
No series listing serial numbers of Civil War - era weapons were among the records of the Office of the Chief of Ordnance when those records were transferred to the National Archives. It is not possible for the Archives to locate a record by serial number for any weapon of any type. However, the intensity of desire, coupled with the willingness to spend countless hours personally searching, can accomplish the seemingly impossible.
Scattered few and far between among the bound unit records of some Union volunteer cavalry and artillery units (RG 94, entries 113 and 114) in the records of the Adjutant General's Office (not the Ordnance Office) are occasional lists by serial number of pistols and carbines. No inventory or other finding aid states that fact; it is not apparent from a casual scanning of the records; and there is no index or list that will disclose where such things will be found.
One or two private researchers, with prodigious patience and dedication, have systematically searched through hundreds of these volumes and compiled a number of lists of serial numbers that now and then enable a proud possessor to say (for example) that Colt number 120055 was issued to Sgt. John F. Peters of Company L, First Connecticut Cavalry, in 1863.
Frequently the lists of serial numbers will not identify the make or model of the arm, only the type (pistol or carbine). Other sources, such as Summary Statements of Quarterly Returns of Ordnance and Ordnance Stores on Hand in Regular and Volunteer Army Organizations, 1862 - 1867, 1870 - 1876 (National Archives Microfilm Publication M1281), must be consulted for that additional information. Other arms or equipment, such as swords, saddles, cannon, or muskets, are not traceable in this way. No comparable Confederate lists are known. Moreover, the side arms of commissioned infantry officers are not shown. The latter can be sometimes be found in the privately held records of the companies involved, such as the Firearms Division of Colt Industries in Hartford, Connecticut.
One assiduous private researcher has published lists of serial numbers, including some for the Civil War. Beginning in 1983, Franklin B. Mallory, under the designation Springfield Research Service (P.O. Box 4181, Silver Spring, MD 20904), has issued these lists showing the units that received specific arms. For a nominal fee, Mr. Mallory has been providing the names and units of soldiers whose weapons appear on his lists. The arms listed are only a small fraction of the total issued during the war, but for a handful of fortunate souls, a hitherto impossible feat of identification becomes possible.

 

[Jobe Holiday]

Frank Mallory has been deceased for quite a few years. See my post in "I'm a newbie to this site".
J.

 

[rob63]

ucvelics - that would be awesome if you could post those copies of the microfilm. Thanks for the article! I never had the pleasure of meeting Frank Mallory, but his persistence was amazing.