Another Cannon

[Specster]

What year was it cast?.....It should also say on the muzzle.....My reenacting unit fires an original 1862 3" Ordnance from Phoenix Iron Works....
Here's a pic of it: http://cptscott.angelfire.com/cannon.htm

We have 4 civil war canon in town, 1 is operational, restored in 2004, brass 12 lb., Cyrus and Alger I believe. The writing on this one is so faint I cannot make out much other than its cast, 476, and the PICo. It is used as an ornament, is outdoors and is begining to rust. I dont think it could be fired without some serious work being done. Im starting to work with the people in my town on trying to get some of these things looked after. The canon restored is 2004 is sheltered.

 

[drezac]

I went back and tried to get a clean copy of the inscription....it was later in the day, I did not have much luck with photos. Tried the tin foil method but the brand i was using was too thick (need 2 use cheap stuff), tried talc and that picked up the print for a momemt. The paper and pencip did nothing.

Still looking for opinions on preserving such an item while outdoors. I see that it is best to use a variety of electrolysis. If the town didnt have the money for something like that right off the bat, would it be best to hand clean existing rust or seal it.

My son is an archeology major at OSU. one technique to use is shaving cream and a squeegee. rub shaving cream on the area of the inscription, then use the squeegee to remove it. shaving cream will remain in the inscription making it easier to read. the shaving cream does no harm and is easy to remove. This is how they read faint inscriptions on headstones and other items.

 

[drezac]

also, compare the unit markings to others on the gun. the unit markings may have been added later if the gun was used as a monument for that unit.

 

[drezac]

Thank u for your consideration. I know industrial products are typically superior to retail but there is a line of products from the company "Flitz" many people rave about their products. I have 2 brass fire exstinguishers the 1st 1 I cleaned by hand with everything under the sun and got it looking decent. People had recommended Flitz copper & brass cleaner. I got it, had 2 order it, no one had it, and it worked great. Was thinking of asking them to do a promo on the 3 remaining brass cannons. we have a polish we use on our bronze guns that works great, I'll have to ask what the brand is and post it.

I have not yet considered those avenues.....

Tx

Spec

the one thing to remember about the cleaners is that a very small amount of the original material may be removed. while we are talking about microscopic levels, on our guns at the Ohio Statehouse over the years of polishing to a nice bright finish, some of the muzzle and trunnion makings are staring to fade a little. we have now restricted the amount of polishing done on the trunnions and muzzle due to this. we have a polish that works very well on our bronze guns, I'll ask what brand it is and post it.

 

[Specster]

Perhaps, with some research and detective work, you can find a 501 (c) 3 historical preservation group that would donate some funds for the preservation work you would like to see done.
J.

Thanks

 

[Specster]

the one thing to remember about the cleaners is that a very small amount of the original material may be removed. while we are talking about microscopic levels, on our guns at the Ohio Statehouse over the years of polishing to a nice bright finish, some of the muzzle and trunnion makings are staring to fade a little. we have now restricted the amount of polishing done on the trunnions and muzzle due to this. we have a polish that works very well on our bronze guns, I'll ask what brand it is and post it.

Is that polished brass cannon indoors?

 

[drezac]

Is that polished brass cannon indoors?

No, these are the 4 bronze cannon that are on display outside on the statehouse lawn in Columbus, Ohio. we do store them in a warehouse during the winter months to protect the carriages.

 

[drezac]

We use a polish called Wenol on the bronze Statehouse cannons. It does a very good job, and will clean up the discoloration when we fire the guns. http://wenol-polish.com/

 

[Specster]

I just got some good news. The selectman agrees the cannon should be preserved and has asked me what I need ($$$$) to get this done. I dont think they are going to give me crazy money. I would imagine under $5,000. Any ideas as to which way to go on this? I know several people have suggested how to get preserve this cannon but, given the fact that there is a budget. any ideas?

Do you think the local branch of the NPS would be a good starting place for basic information?

 

[unionblue]

What year was it cast?.....It should also say on the muzzle.....My reenacting unit fires an original 1862 3" Ordnance from Phoenix Iron Works....
Here's a pic of it: http://cptscott.angelfire.com/cannon.htm

Albert Sailhorst,

Absolutely EXCELLENT weapon! Sure looks like you boys keep her in great shape! Would love to attend on of the reenactments you boys go on so I could take a picture of it and write a story on it and the men who crew her.

Sincerely,
Unionblue

 

[unionblue]

I just got some good news. The selectman agrees the cannon should be preserved and has asked me what I need ($$$$) to get this done. I dont think they are going to give me crazy money. I would imagine under $5,000. Any ideas as to which way to go on this? I know several people have suggested how to get preserve this cannon but, given the fact that there is a budget. any ideas?

Do you think the local branch of the NPS would be a good starting place for basic information?

Specster,

Good luck with this and no matter how it all turns out, thanks for trying to preserve a bit of our history.

Sincerely,
Unionblue

 

[unicornforge]

the one thing to remember about the cleaners is that a very small amount of the original material may be removed. ....

Commercial polish tends to contain abrasives that, yes removes material from what is being polished. The other option is to use natural products that do not contain abrasives. For example: http://www.mnn.com/your-home/at-home/stories/how-to-clean-brass-naturally

 

[Albert Sailhorst]

Albert Sailhorst,

Absolutely EXCELLENT weapon! Sure looks like you boys keep her in great shape! Would love to attend on of the reenactments you boys go on so I could take a picture of it and write a story on it and the men who crew her.

Sincerely,
Unionblue

I wish you were closer so you could do a story on us!!....We'd LOVE that!!

 

[John Winn]

My son is an archeology major at OSU. one technique to use is shaving cream and a squeegee. rub shaving cream on the area of the inscription, then use the squeegee to remove it. shaving cream will remain in the inscription making it easier to read. the shaving cream does no harm and is easy to remove. This is how they read faint inscriptions on headstones and other items.

I don't wish to come off wrong, but as one who volunteers in an historic cemetery I'd like to say that I'm surprised an archeology department would endorse the use of shaving cream on headstones. In the preservation community this is generally considered very poor practice. It may be OK on metal (don't know) but it can harm stone. Here's what the Association for Gravestone Studies has to say:

https://www.gravestonestudies.org/knowledge-center/faq-s#faqnoanchor

And the Park Service:

http://ncptt.nps.gov/blog/shaving-creamgenealogists-friend-or-cemetery-conservators-foe/

Don't mean to be argumentative or to sound like I'm getting in your face; just wanted to point out it's not a supported practice.

 

[Specster]

Specster,

Good luck with this and no matter how it all turns out, thanks for trying to preserve a bit of our history.

Sincerely,
Unionblue

Thanks, I inquired at the NPS's Springfield Armory today. Left a message w/ the curator but have not yet heard back. I figure they could point me in the right direction.

 

[Specster]

I don't wish to come off wrong, but as one who volunteers in an historic cemetery I'd like to say that I'm surprised an archeology department would endorse the use of shaving cream on headstones. In the preservation community this is generally considered very poor practice. It may be OK on metal (don't know) but it can harm stone. Here's what the Association for Gravestone Studies has to say:

https://www.gravestonestudies.org/knowledge-center/faq-s#faqnoanchor

And the Park Service:

http://ncptt.nps.gov/blog/shaving-creamgenealogists-friend-or-cemetery-conservators-foe/

Don't mean to be argumentative or to sound like I'm getting in your face; just wanted to point out it's not a supported practice.

I dont mean to be argumentative either but sometimes "experts" are over the top... 2 of the better examples recent examples are that leaving unseasoned fire wood in your house will lead to high humidity levels in the winter and letting geese **** on your lawn will lead to "burning". Sometimes I think experts talk just to exercise their lips. When I started researching this issue someone had an issue with every method - even talcum powder. I have a hard time believing these assertions that everything causes incidental damage.

Why dont we just say that, according to the Heisenberg Uncertainty Principle we will never be able to observe ANYTHING without having an effect on it....(and screwing it up).

 

[Specster]

Commercial polish tends to contain abrasives that, yes removes material from what is being polished. The other option is to use natural products that do not contain abrasives. For example: http://www.mnn.com/your-home/at-home/stories/how-to-clean-brass-naturally

In all honesty, Ive been doing some metal restoration and any grit over 2000 - and most grits of commercial polishes are about 2500 require a great deal of elbow grease to make the slightest impact. I have used 2500 grit wet sand paper on an electric random orbital sander and it takes over 10 minutes to take off the slightest oxidation. These products are very tame and one (Im not positive but I think its Brasso) has no grit at all. I have found tooth paste has about the same effect as 2500 grit.

 

[drezac]

I don't wish to come off wrong, but as one who volunteers in an historic cemetery I'd like to say that I'm surprised an archeology department would endorse the use of shaving cream on headstones. In the preservation community this is generally considered very poor practice. It may be OK on metal (don't know) but it can harm stone. Here's what the Association for Gravestone Studies has to say:

https://www.gravestonestudies.org/knowledge-center/faq-s#faqnoanchor

And the Park Service:

http://ncptt.nps.gov/blog/shaving-creamgenealogists-friend-or-cemetery-conservators-foe/

Don't mean to be argumentative or to sound like I'm getting in your face; just wanted to point out it's not a supported practice.

No problem - it's always good to have more information - sometimes research shows that an accepted method may not be the best. I'll forward those links to my son. now that I think of it, while he is at OSU finishing is degree, the shaving cream technique was from Hocking College, a 2 year program where he received an associate degree.

 

[drezac]

I sent those links to my son and he gave me some clarificaton. The shaving cream method was not from the archeology departments (did not know that before). Hocking College was working with the National Forest Service to restore Payne Cemetery. It was located where a (NFS Terminology here) "Freed African American Community town known as Payne's Crossing " was located. Hocking College used this as a field project for the students (It was completed the year after my son's class was working there). They were told to use the shaving cream method by the National Forest Service.

http://www.fs.fed.us/wildflowers/regions/eastern/ssrs/story95c1.html?id=5290

 

[John Winn]

I sent those links to my son and he gave me some clarificaton. The shaving cream method was not from the archeology departments (did not know that before). Hocking College was working with the National Forest Service to restore Payne Cemetery. It was located where a (NFS Terminology here) "Freed African American Community town known as Payne's Crossing " was located. Hocking College used this as a field project for the students (It was completed the year after my son's class was working there). They were told to use the shaving cream method by the National Forest Service.

http://www.fs.fed.us/wildflowers/regions/eastern/ssrs/story95c1.html?id=5290

Thanks for the updates. I'm surprised the Forest Service would have done that but who knows who was in charge of that project (might not have been a preservation officer type). Here in Oregon it's considered defacing the stone to use shaving cream (or just about anything else). Glad to know I didn't upset you. Cemetery preservation is just something that's close to home for me. My best.