Another Cannon

Thanks for the updates. I'm surprised the Forest Service would have done that but who knows who was in charge of that project (might not have been a preservation officer type). Here in Oregon it's considered defacing the stone to use shaving cream (or just about anything else). Glad to know I didn't upset you. Cemetery preservation is just something that's close to home for me. My best.

I understand that you dont want to deface tombstones but dont you think someone should get an inscriptions by what ever it takes since we now (as a society) have such a great capacity to store and transit information while we can. I have some interest in tombstones and cemeteries. Some, such as those on the Northshore of Boston (Salem, Marblehead) are, basically bare. You cannot read anything. What is harsher....talc, shaving cream or a New England winter?
 
I understand that you dont want to deface tombstones but dont you think someone should get an inscriptions by what ever it takes since we now (as a society) have such a great capacity to store and transit information while we can. I have some interest in tombstones and cemeteries. Some, such as those on the Northshore of Boston (Salem, Marblehead) are, basically bare. You cannot read anything. What is harsher....talc, shaving cream or a New England winter?

In short, no. There are photographic methods that can be used and foil rubbings are generally safe (but not for very old, brittle stones like slate). There are also very good cleaning solutions now (e.g. D/2) and if you own the stone or are working with a professional that's often a good method. There are alternatives.

Consider: so one person gets an inscription (and that's a maybe) and damages the stone. Does "society" now have that information ? Unlikely. Then, next time another person comes along who doesn't have the inscription and damages the stone some more. Eventually we've lost it altogether or maybe even on the first try as people often use methods much more destructive than shaving cream.

There are also legal questions to be considered. Just because one wants to read the inscription that doesn't give one the legal right to do anything to the stone. Generally, if you don't own the stone you've no legal right to do anything to it. Would you be OK with strangers messing with your relative's stones without permission ? Old cemeteries are archeological museums of sorts and we need to be very careful before we do anything to them. Curiosity on one person's part doesn't justify damage or risk of damage.

That's my opinion and I think I'm safe in saying that it's shared by most if not all cemetery preservation professionals (and I've worked under several and know some others). I would hope that you would reconsider your position and maybe at least do some asking/looking around at what people who know about these things say (and I did provide two sources). If you are still not convinced then you best be very careful not to get caught as it could cost you more than you expected.
 
I am not saying everyone should have a shot at it. Im saying have a ssytem, at the cemetary office, in place and at that point, take 1 shot at recovery. Beyond that, if the stone is still owned by heirs, no body should be even touching it without their consent.

I have no intentions of touching any tombstones - My comments were general observations. I was trying to recover an inspection from an ACW iron cannon which is completely unattended. I tried photography 1st and then went to tinfoil, then talc. I am confident I did no harm.

Andy Hall pointed me in the right dirction and I can now figure it out.

Best regards,

Spec
 
I am not saying everyone should have a shot at it. Im saying have a ssytem, at the cemetary office, in place and at that point, take 1 shot at recovery. Beyond that, if the stone is still owned by heirs, no body should be even touching it without their consent.

I have no intentions of touching any tombstones - My comments were general observations. I was trying to recover an inspection from an ACW iron cannon which is completely unattended. I tried photography 1st and then went to tinfoil, then talc. I am confident I did no harm.

Andy Hall pointed me in the right dirction and I can now figure it out.

Best regards,

Spec

I'm glad to hear that you are not advocating just anybody going out and doing whatever it takes to read a stone.

Many cemeteries do keep records and so do organizations like historical societies. Usually, these days anyway, transcriptions are obtained safely. I'm all for that. The historic cemetery where I volunteer did a complete inventory some years back and we recorded the transcriptions using several methods (depended on the type of stone and such). Many cemeteries, though, are not maintained by anybody. Those, I feel, are best left alone. There are also many people who don't bother to check to see if transcriptions exist (e.g. many at findagrave) and just want to get one for their immediate gratification and use. That's the sort of thing I really can't endorse. And I still can't endorse using any method no matter what but we needn't continue down that path.

We just have to be careful, I feel, in what we say as it may influence others to do things they shouldn't if we aren't careful. That's why I felt compelled to answer as I did.

I commend your efforts to restore the cannon. You are asking the right questions. While I'm sure metal can be damaged if not treated right I think it's different than stone so it might be perfectly fine to use a method on metal that wouldn't be fine on stone.

Anyway, I think we're pretty close to being on the same page here. Thanks for the conversation.

My best.
 
Something else to be considered today is the preservation of the information on the head stones themselves and the effects of acid rain, exhaust fumes, etc. on the inscriptions. I will give you an example: About 35 years ago I recorded the information off the head stones of several Civil War veterans in a tiny abandoned cemetery in the shadow of a large steel mill. Today, those inscriptions which had stood the test of time for some 75 and 80 years, are now completely gone! The faces of the headstones have eroded away to the point that there are only faint depressions where the lettering used to be. Shaving cream, tracings, etc. are not doing anywhere near the damage that is being done by our own polluted atmosphere. Creating a data base by collecting and preserving the "graves registration" information is of major importance, to me anyway.
J.
 
Something else to be considered today is the preservation of the information on the head stones themselves and the effects of acid rain, exhaust fumes, etc. on the inscriptions. I will give you an example: About 35 years ago I recorded the information off the head stones of several Civil War veterans in a tiny abandoned cemetery in the shadow of a large steel mill. Today, those inscriptions which had stood the test of time for some 75 and 80 years, are now completely gone! The faces of the headstones have eroded away to the point that there are only faint depressions where the lettering used to be. Shaving cream, tracings, etc. are not doing anywhere near the damage that is being done by our own polluted atmosphere. Creating a data base by collecting and preserving the "graves registration" information is of major importance, to me anyway.
J.

We are in total agreement....
 
Is there a date on the trunnion?
This is no date the best I can tell. The left trunnion was in the shade this morning, and the best I could make out was 476, which is the production number. The right trunnion was in full sunlight and it appears to be blank, although it also appears to have been abraded. I will post pics in a minute...need to go to another device.
 
This is no date the best I can tell. The left trunnion was in the shade this morning, and the best I could make out was 476, which is the production number. The right trunnion was in full sunlight and it appears to be blank, although it also appears to have been abraded. I will post pics in a minute...need to go to another device.
image.jpg
 
Actually, now that I look at the left trunnion picture again, it does appear that there is print, running virtically, in raised print. Does anyone else see this? From what know it could be the Patent date, PIC0, Trade Mark or blank.
 
Thank u for your consideration. I know industrial products are typically superior to retail but there is a line of products from the company "Flitz" many people rave about their products. I have 2 brass fire exstinguishers the 1st 1 I cleaned by hand with everything under the sun and got it looking decent. People had recommended Flitz copper & brass cleaner. I got it, had 2 order it, no one had it, and it worked great. Was thinking of asking them to do a promo on the 3 remaining brass cannons.

I have not yet considered those avenues.....

Tx

Spec

Hi Awanita

I have been waiting for months for a little direction from the NPS on how to just arrest further damage. They have not responded to several inquiries. The twon has alotted me some $$ to dael with this. I think when the ice melts, I am going to do some gentle rust removal, except in the areas where there are inscriptions - those I am just going to cover. I am going to go to a marine supply store and by the best iron rust arresting product and cover the entire cannon - including the inscriptions.

The money they have alotted I am going to spend on a plaque for the cannon. I have not traced its CW history but it could have been at Gettysburg. Its in front of a cemetary which I know has some revolutionary war participants.

Best regards,

Spec
 
Came across another cannon at the town hall yesterday. the trunnions were marked 1842/ and NP Ames Founders. "Brass" actually it is bronze, I think it is a six pounder. I dont know how such a small town ended up with so many cannon....I know of at least 4 and 1 which is still in working condition. All right in the thick of the ACW.
 
Last edited:
Came across another cannon at the town hall yesterday. the trunnions were marked 1842/ and Ames Iron Works. Brass. I dont know how such a small town ended up with so many cannon....I know of at least 4 and 1 which is still in working condition. All right in the thick of the ACW.
An Ames cannon--nice!
 
Back
Top