Real or Faux? Ames model 1862 Light Calvary sword.

[scooter748driver]

I looked at the Ames section in Thillmann's book on cavalry & artillery sabers and I couldn't find any example with a date font like the one on the saber in question.

Looking at the other markings (the US and the Ames scroll), I can't say exactly what it is but they seem off to me. The US is a font like that of the 1862 date or close to it. The scroll is just....I don't know what. Too good? I can't put a finger on it. Maybe it's the super detail at the top? It just seems off in some manner.

My uncertain guesstimate is that this is either a legit saber that has been restamped with an 1862 date and maybe the US and/or scroll, or a decent fake.

To the OP - I don't meant to come off as bashing it and if I do I apologize. Some forums (not on this site but other collectors/gun sites) have members who, no matter what is posted, do their very best to deride the item. All the time. I'm definitely not trying to do that here. As I said, I'm not an expert and I could be 100% wrong. It's just that in my limited experience there seems to be several things that makes me question it.

If it were me I'd look for another example. The 1860 was produced in the thousands and good, solid, reliable examples are relatively easy to find for a decent price. I'd prefer to have one that I didn't question even a little even if it meant paying a bit more. But that's me. Regardless of your decision I wish you success in your purchase!

 

[antne56]

Gentleman,
I contacted David at azswords and he got back to almost immediately.
Great guy , thanks to all and especially bayonet for the contact link to David.
I attached his answer in the attachment.
Thanks to everyone who gave input .
Tony

 

[antne56]

I looked at the Ames section in Thillmann's book on cavalry & artillery sabers and I couldn't find any example with a date font like the one on the saber in question.

Looking at the other markings (the US and the Ames scroll), I can't say exactly what it is but they seem off to me. The US is a font like that of the 1862 date or close to it. The scroll is just....I don't know what. Too good? I can't put a finger on it. Maybe it's the super detail at the top? It just seems off in some manner.

My uncertain guesstimate is that this is either a legit saber that has been restamped with an 1862 date and maybe the US and/or scroll, or a decent fake.

To the OP - I don't meant to come off as bashing it and if I do I apologize. Some forums (not on this site but other collectors/gun sites) have members who, no matter what is posted, do their very best to deride the item. All the time. I'm definitely not trying to do that here. As I said, I'm not an expert and I could be 100% wrong. It's just that in my limited experience there seems to be several things that makes me question it.

If it were me I'd look for another example. The 1860 was produced in the thousands and good, solid, reliable examples are relatively easy to find for a decent price. I'd prefer to have one that I didn't question even a little even if it meant paying a bit more. But that's me. Regardless of your decision I wish you success in your purchase!

Scooter I thank you sir for all your time and effort .

 

[R. Porter]

It doesn't hurt to question and double check. I think I've seen dates like that 1862. It does look odd. It might be double struck and a little off. The inspector's initials look partially polished off. Maybe the US and 1862 were an attempt to sharpen up the original date and US after the blade was polished up a little following a grip repair. It has an 1862 date so it had plenty of time to get dirty, banged up and then refurbished.

 

[bayonet]

Gentleman,
I contacted David at azswords and he got back to almost immediately.
Great guy , thanks to all and especially bayonet for the contact link to David.
I attached his answer in the attachment.
Thanks to everyone who gave input .
Tony

View attachment 544932

Interesting very Interesting!

 

[antne56]

Yes it is. I'm assuming he knows what he's talking about.

 

[bobinwmass]

Yes it is. I'm assuming he knows what he's talking about.

Usually. No one knows everything. I did pick up a couple items from Dave that he had misidentified, but to my advantage because in those two cases I'd already had experience and the knowledge to know what I was looking at. For everything else, I'm sure he knows much more than me.

 

[antne56]

Usually. No one knows everything. I did pick up a couple items from Dave that he had misidentified, but to my advantage because in those two cases I'd already had experience and the knowledge to know what I was looking at. For everything else, I'm sure he knows much more than me.

Hi Bob, I agree 100%.
It just seems to me for him to be so sure of his evaluation that he must have documentation to back it up.
But who knows?

 

[bobinwmass]

I collected swords for over 40 years. Sometimes I just had to go with my gut. The markings look squirrelly enough to me that I would have passed on putting this one in my collection. And maybe I would be wrong, but I hate always having doubts about something after I purchase it.

 

[antne56]

Well said, and I completely agree. I am going to pass and hopefully find another.
The reason i was interested in this because the seller was willing to trade a firearm for it.
Thanks for the time and effort everyone put into this!

 

[Package4]

After looking again at the picture of the U.S. and 1862 stamp, I agree that they do look like they were restamped, especially when compared to the inspector's initials, which are well worn. The stamps just look too "new." But the Ames manufacturing stamp on the other side looks good to me.

I believe this to be an 1865 dated sword that has been restamped to make it more appealing and valuable, they did not do a very good job. Rapheal at Shiloh had one very similar just this week on his site, though his was much better in terms of font and stamping.

 

[antne56]

I believe this to be an 1865 dated sword that has been restamped to make it more appealing and valuable, they did not do a very good job. Rapheal at Shiloh had one very similar just this week on his site, though his was much better in terms of font and stamping.

It very well could be the case, can you send me the link to the one on Shilo to check out.

 

[scooter748driver]

It very well could be the case, can you send me the link to the one on Shilo to check out.

Here's the home page. Categories are on the left, so click on Edged Weapond and then click Swords - Cavalry Swords. There are a lot of great choices and Rafael is top notch!

Best of luck. Be sure to post pics once you get one!

Shiloh Civil War Relics Main

Shiloh Relics is one of the world&146;s largest Civil War and World War marketplaces on the web. We provide online trading exchange between the individual customer and Shiloh Relics. Individuals not big businesses use Shiloh Relics to buy and sell

shilohrelics.com

 

[on again]

Found this link o ames swords https://civilwartalk.com/threads/ames-mfg-sword-1860-logo-id.132794/
Picture no 8 part of the stamping is worn....also see message No 28 examples of stamping

 

[antne56]

Interesting and informative article, Thanks for the input.

 

[scooter748driver]

Found this link o ames swords https://civilwartalk.com/threads/ames-mfg-sword-1860-logo-id.132794/
Picture no 8 part of the stamping is worn....also see message No 28 examples of stamping

Notice that none of the swords & sabers listed in the linked post have a date font similar to the sword in question here. The more I see pictures of other Ames swords/sabers the more I'm convinced the OP sword has been re-stamped, the statement from the vendor that the font is correct not withstanding.

 

[antne56]

So everything I'm finding is stating that all date stamps were done with a single 4 digit stamp.

Not done with individual numbered stamps.
Can that be 100% confirmed ?

If that's the case I'd have to say it was restamped.

 

[Spathologist]

Yes it is. I'm assuming he knows what he's talking about.

I've offered polite corrections for a couple of his IDs.

He was not very polite in return.

The date font stands out to me as well, but everything else looks solid.

 

[antne56]

Unfortunately some people don't take questioning their knowledge well.
Yes the date fonts have everyone thinking it's been restamped.
Hard to figure that one out .

 

[R. Porter]

Is it possible that the US and 1862 underwent corrosion so that when the blade was cleaned off there was greater metal loss in those two areas? Being larger indentions into the metal they were better able to capture moisture and any possible corrosive material in the soil. If that seems even remotely possible, this is were the ad copy for the sword should stray off into ideas like blood pitting and poor wounded or dead cavalrymen. Of course if the corrosion thing is possible it could have happened in someone's barn, shed, basement or attic. It might even have happened when someone used a polishing paste and didn't clean it off properly.

Just a thought. Not an expert here.

I think I made the guy at Arizona Swords angry once myself. Not intentionally. I suppose he deals with people trying to talk his prices down by telling him his swords are not worth what he's asking and he's tired of it. )I wasn't trying to buy a sword from him, just asking about one.) I don't know him so I can't say, but if I ever meet him I'm not going to tell him about the time I made him angry. Actually, I think I irritated someone on CWT asking about a sword he displayed in his collection. It was the same type of sword that I asked the guy from Arizona Swords about. Those aren't the only people I've irritated asking about swords. I must do a poor job of asking about swords. Probably because I'm not an expert.