Monuments After the fall

[Mild53]

Your compassion does you credit but may be a bit misplaced here. If the sight of a marble monument is enough to adversely affect one's life than one needs to reassess one's priorities. Of course, the opposite is equally true.

It appears CW that you successfully argued against your own point.

I hate when that happens!

Some folks are disturbed with the message inherent in the monument and some folks like to be reminded about the message in the monument. Neither needs to "reassess" their priorities - but maybe listening carefully, being open to other points of view, and thinking about compromise would help.

 

[Mild53]

I don't think so. I think both are right up there together. But, you have a right to your opinion.

It's not about being acceptable. A statue is acceptable. But, in a town or public area for all - I would think that it should make all and/or the majority of the residents agree on it's presence and on the same page - that it should be there. And from the article - It sounds like their residents are not all on the same page. Insurance money or not.



I agree. I don't think it stops anyone - it doesn't. And I really HOPE that the Black residents do. But, let's be realistic -- they don't have organizations set up + -it appears - that most don't have the income and education so... they don't have the funds or know how. But, hopefully they will one day -- and it will be interesting how and if they get any backlash - if they tried.



Thank you Everyone is different. I can hear a song and it can adversely affect me for a little while. So, I can imagine that a statue could for some. Would it for me? I don't know. I don't live in such a place.

But, it's a possibility -- and my priorities are well placed and aligned in my life. Things, events, memories - evoke emotions, feelings and can affect how one feels about themselves. Put that on top of how one may feel or are being treated - it can definitely do that. I don't live there - but that's a pretty human experience.


I don't know what's right or wrong. I just think a conversation - another one should happen. I would think a playground - and dedicate to the descendants of the soldiers and enslaved. I think that's pretty sweet.



I don't think this is pitting anyone against anyone. If anything - the monument is aiding in that. Believe it or not... it does.

In town like this, I agree. I think it will always be like that - and at one point - if Black people want a change - they must make one or leave. It's that clear - but I also know from visiting Alabama - they are in another mindset and situation - that they inherited from their ancestors. Thank God my parents got out of Alabama. I love to visit for a day or so... but I couldn't' imagine that experience.

One of the problems in this forum is that it is easy to bully others with snarky responses. You have responded to these thoughtfuly and without insults. I am glad you are on this forum.

 

[matthew mckeon]

Great article, thanks for posting, CW! Before posting everybody, make sure you read it.

Looks like the people of the town of Demopolis are pretty sensible folks.

 

[Dedej]

Why not a simple memorial to peace, loving, caring, understanding, unity? Such would contribute to healing of a very divisive community. It's a small step, but it's a community that needs to start somewhere. Another confederate monument would only reinforce feelings of antagonism and pain to half the town's populace which, by its very location, are reminded on a daily basis of the remaining entrenched segregation.

We are all of one human race. It is time for peace and unity to prevail among brothers and sisters of all colors.

This is how I feel Perfect comment, IMO.

Thanks

 

[CMWinkler]

It appears CW that you successfully argued against your own point.

I hate when that happens!

Some folks are disturbed with the message inherent in the monument and some folks like to be reminded about the message in the monument. Neither needs to "reassess" their priorities - but maybe listening carefully, being open to other points of view, and thinking about compromise would help.

Perhaps, but if either the sight of or the absence of a monument is so devastating to your psyche, I think reassessment is very much in order. Confederate monuments are very important to me, so important I will defend the two under my personal stewardship by any means within my power, if, however, monuments elsewhere are removed I will be saddened, but it will not ruin my life. It is important to me to remember, honor and memorialize Confederate dead so their sacrifice is never forgotten. But I can see the arguments of those who oppose them, I think them wrong, but I see their argument.

What I took from the article is a lesson much needed today throughout this nation: having differing views does not make you a racist or other such epithet. People can disagree without being disagreeable.

 

[Mild53]

Perhaps, but if either the sight of or the absence of a monument is so devastating to your psyche, I think reassessment is very much in order. Confederate monuments are very important to me, so important I will defend the two under my personal stewardship by any means within my power, if, however, monuments elsewhere are removed I will be saddened, but it will not ruin my life. It is important to me to remember, honor and memorialize Confederate dead so their sacrifice is never forgotten. But I can see the arguments of those who oppose them, I think them wrong, but I see their argument.

What I took from the article is a lesson much needed today throughout this nation: having differing views does not make you a racist or other such epithet. People can disagree without being disagreeable.

Thanks for a thoughful response to my post.

 

[Mild53]

OK, then that makes it clear to me where you stand. You think that one person's feelings take precedence over others. That honoring Confederate dead must be done in a manner "acceptable" to those who oppose any mention of them. You see, I thought from your earlier statement it was about the money that could be used for all. That position I fully understand and accept, though in this case taxpayer money isn't being used, insurance money is. This new position I find far more difficult to understand.

Your compassion does you credit but may be a bit misplaced here. If the sight of a marble monument is enough to adversely affect one's life than one needs to reassess one's priorities. Of course, the opposite is equally true.

By the way, these two of your comments are pretty dismissive, condescending and unecessary. Dedej was simply stating her opinion and not attacking anyone.

Dedej is concerned about others "feelings" and I don't see why that is a bad thing.

I don't see where she said "one persons feelings take precedence over another".

I don't see where she said that "honoring Confderate dead must be dome in a manner acceptable to those who oppose any mention of them".

 

[CMWinkler]

By the way, these two of your comments are pretty dismissive, condescending and unecessary. Dedej was simply stating her opinion and not attacking anyone.

OK. I was not attacking her either, but seeking a clarification on her position. She expressed concern about money, taxpayer money, might be better utilized to the benefit of all. That position I fully support understand, hence my question about the use of private funds for its restoration. I am sorry you don't like the way I express my views.

Dedej is concerned about others "feelings" and I don't see why that is a bad thing.

I didn't say it was a bad thing. Civility is the grease in any society. Being overly concerned about feelings can lead to a tyranny where freedom of expression is inhibited. We see that increasingly in this country. In my life I try never to unintentionally offend another.

I don't see where she said "one persons feelings take precedence over another".

She didn't say it, though it was very much implied. If one group can prevent the restoration of the monument to Confederate dead, their feelings do, very much, take precedence over those wanting to see it restored.

I don't see where she said that "honoring Confderate dead must be dome in a manner acceptable to those who oppose any mention of them".

Again, I didn't say she said it, but it was implied. To paraphrase, you can scroll back and see her exact words, she said there were other ways to honor these men rather than the restoration of this monument. My position was, and remains, that others who seem to be opposed to these men being remembered as anything other than evil oppressors, should not try to dictate how they are memorialized to me.

 

[MaryDee]

Why not a simple memorial to peace, loving, caring, understanding, unity? Such would contribute to healing of a very divisive community. It's a small step, but it's a community that needs to start somewhere. Another confederate monument would only reinforce feelings of antagonism and pain to half the town's populace which, by its very location, are reminded on a daily basis of the remaining entrenched segregation.

We are all of one human race. It is time for peace and unity to prevail among brothers and sisters of all colors.

Only one "like" button is insufficient here--if I could, I would click hundreds! Thank you, @chellers!

And thank you, @CMWinkler, for posting the link to this thought-provoking article. I had already read it and was thinking of posting it, but you beat me to it!

 

[Lost Cause]

Especially, a town such as Demopolis. It has even been called one of the most racist towns in America.

Is this found online? I could not find any polling that asserts this. Thanks

 

[uaskme]

It is a great Article. I liked the part of the discussion about some who hide their History. I thing that is just as destructive as others who demand theirs to be displayed.

 

[RobertP]

Is this found online? I could not find any polling that asserts this. Thanks

I'm pretty sure one can find a place more racist than a town that's pretty much 50-50 black/white. I consider towns that are almost all one race to be by definition racist. Same for States that are near 99% white.

 

[Lost Cause]

I'm pretty sure one can find a place more racist than a town that's pretty much 50-50 black/white. I consider towns that are almost all one race to be by definition racist. Same for States that are near 99% white.

That is what I was thinking, especially when many of these non-diverse towns were once, it not still considered "sundown."

 

[Dedej]

Is this found online? I could not find any polling that asserts this. Thanks

Sure. FYI: Polling wouldn't be a source of this type of thing.

In his office, housed in the Seahawks' former headquarters and overlooking the athletic fields, the president explained his pro-immigrant feelings are also linked to growing up in what was then "one of the most racist communities in America": the small Alabama town of Demopolis.

Castleberry grew up in what he calls ''one of the most racist communities in America,''​

Source

http://www.nytimes.com/1985/04/27/us/across-the-rural-south-segregation-as-usual.html?pagewanted=all
https://racialinjustice.eji.org/timeline/
https://books.google.com/books?id=QqdKq8NQhREC&pg=PA31&lpg=PA31&dq=demopolis+lynchings&source=bl&ots=JyofouERoC&sig=bpXOmmi_7RqEiCHJH3aVYeGdjQ4&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwia-_ivzJ_VAhXMHT4KHbv7A20Q6AEIVjAI#v=onepage&q=demopolis lynchings&f=false

Also, if you go through the Freedman's Bureau - you will find more incidents.

For current views by some members of their community. They have a community message board - I don't want to pick and choose from the many post there - but feel free to browse: http://www.demopolislive.com/board/viewforum.php?f=7

They also have accounts of lynchings in their town.

- Samuel Verge lynched Demopolis Alabama August 4 1911

 

[Dedej]

I'm pretty sure one can find a place more racist than a town that's pretty much 50-50 black/white. I consider towns that are almost all one race to be by definition racist. Same for States that are near 99% white.

Definitely. But, one of it's own members of their community made the statement - not I. So, I would think he would know first hand.

 

[RobertP]

Definitely. But, one of it's own members of their community made the statement - not I. So, I would think he would know first hand.

The first article you linked was from 1985, 32 years ago.

 

[RobertP]

That is what I was thinking, especially when many of these non-diverse towns were once, it not still considered "sundown."

I've spent a lot of time in rural Southern towns, and they have changed a lot. What I notice is a real effort for people to be polite to others of a different race and I haven't seen a separate anything in many decades.

 

[RobertP]

Definitely. But, one of it's own members of their community made the statement - not I. So, I would think he would know first hand.

A lot of the time races self-segregate as you surely know, though not as much as before. When we lived in Lafayette, La., in the early 80's there was Black owned club/bar on Verot School Rd. not far from where I lived. 5 nights a week it was black club but on Wednesdays it was advertised a "white night" and we occasionally went for a very good time. I'm sure that sounds strange to you as a younger Michigan native but that's the way things worked in Cajun country at the time.

 

[Dedej]

I've spent a lot of time in rural Southern towns, and they have changed a lot. What I notice is a real effort for people to be polite to others of a different race and I haven't seen a separate anything in many decades.

I'm sure there is much change. I have never said that - nor implied that it wasn't. I have only implied being mindful of others and their feelings. Especially, when there is a history via Slavery, Reconstruction, Jim Crow - where one portion of the community wasn't allow to voice their opinions and feelings. Or felt they couldn't for whatever reason.

I find it sad when older people can not see that - but then assume and/or imply sensitivities or misaligned priorities of those people - but not seeing that it is them who have those issues - and a lack of empathy.

In the end, that community will do what they want - and that usually means silencing those who they feel shouldn't have the right to voice their feelings and the right to feel comfortable.

 

[Dedej]

A lot of the time races self-segregate as you surely know, though not as much as before. When we lived in Lafayette, La., in the early 80's there was Black owned club/bar on Verot School Rd. not far from where I lived. 5 nights a week it was black club but on Wednesdays it was advertised a "white night" and we occasionally went for a very good time. I'm sure that sounds strange to you as a younger Michigan native but that's the way things worked in Cajun country at the time.

I'm sorry - but for me to properly explain this - I would have to go into modern politics.

As a Michigan native, I understand - but I am not naive and misinformed on why and how those areas became that way. And I am sure neither are you.