3 revolver questions

[MikeyB]

Happy Holidays everyone.

3 questions for the revolver experts:
1) Was the Colt revolver the most popular sidearm during the Civil War?
2) Was a sidearm standard issue for Federal cavalry? Or, did only officers get them?
3) Were the revolvers manufactured in 1865 significantly better than the ones available early in the war? Or was there not a lot of innovation?

 

[redbob]

In my opinion:
1. The Colt and Remington's were the most commonly issued pistols by the U.S. Government.
2. Pistols were frequently issued to Cavalrymen along with sabers and long guns especially later in the war. A Cavalryman needed something that they could load and fire from the back of a horse.
3. They started with cap and ball and ended with cap and ball, cartridge guns were available; but not in general use especially as being issued by the US Government.

 

[JOHN42768]

!) As stated, but also include the Whitney Navy and Starr
2)Many officers purchased theirs privately
3) As stated, but improvements like double action came into being

 

[MikeyB]

Thanks for the replies. Should Remington and Colt be viewed simliar to Springfield/Enfield - similiar guns with similar capabilities? Shared ammunition?

 

[BillO]

In my opinion:
1. The Colt and Remington's were the most commonly issued pistols by the U.S. Government.
2. Pistols were frequently issued to Cavalrymen along with sabers and long guns especially later in the war. A Cavalryman needed something that they could load and fire from the back of a horse.
3. They started with cap and ball and ended with cap and ball, cartridge guns were available; but not in general use especially as being issued by the US Government.

Hello Bob, realistically you can't reload a cap and ball revolver sitting on a horse.

 

[JOHN42768]

Colt had the public relations in its favor due to the Colonel, but many preferred the Remington due to the solid top making it a stronger revolver. With to advent of so many new firearm makers the logistics of different ammo became a nightmare

 

[redbob]

Hello Bob, realistically you can't reload a cap and ball revolver sitting on a horse.

Nor can you change out cylinders while riding like the popular lore goes-I would imagine that that is why some cavalrymen (especially Confederates) carried multiple pistols.

 

[Story]

Thanks for the replies. Should Remington and Colt be viewed simliar to Springfield/Enfield - similiar guns with similar capabilities? Shared ammunition?

I'd say so - note how often in primary sources (from both sides) weapons are referred to as a 'rifle' or a 'revolver' [not being so particular about Colt, Remington, Enfield, ad nauseum].

More heavily weighted should be the individual's level of training, exponentially so when it came to using a revolver while mounted.

Kinda why the Federal cavalry where at a disadvantage at the start, considering their recruits.

 

[JOHN42768]

Hello Bob, realistically you can't reload a cap and ball revolver sitting on a horse.

The Remington was much easier to load as no wedge was involved. Nobody saying it was easy, but they did it.

 

[nc native]

Colt had the public relations in its favor due to the Colonel, but many preferred the Remington due to the solid top making it a stronger revolver. With to advent of so many new firearm makers the logistics of different ammo became a nightmare

I have reproduction models of both the Colt Navy and the Remington New Army revolvers and the Remington
is much more solidly built. That top strap over the cylinder on the Remington New Army is what gives it
its more sturdy frame. I'll have to say though that the Colt Navy is better balanced and feels better in the
hand. (it is lighter and points more naturally at the target) When I'm loading the Colt Navy I go easy on
the black powder because without the top strap cylinders have been known to go flying off into the wild
blue yonder with too heavy of a powder charge.

 

[MikeyB]

What was the max range of a colt or remington? And in practical terms when you consider accuracy of the weapon and marksmanship of the average user, what was practical range?

 

[Larryh86GT]

Hello Bob, realistically you can't reload a cap and ball revolver sitting on a horse.

Might be why we see photos of 2 or 3 revolvers being carried by the cavalry, if one is good two is better.

 

[UCVRelics]

Here is one of my favorites that is widely overlooked and solved all the above problems. The LeFaucheux M1858 was one of the only foreign-manufactured revolvers to have been imported by the U.S. government during the American Civil War. Over 11,000 were ordered by Federal authorities for cavalry use, with most of these serving in the Western Theater. This number surpasses that of many American-manufactured arms and makes the LeFaucheux M1858 a significant U.S. martial arm of the period. Although not imported by the Confederacy, some Southern officers are known to have carried LeFaucheux M1858 Revolvers.

 

[johan_steele]

The weapon is capable of far better accuracy than the typical shooter. There is also a significant difference when shooting at a target that is not likely to shoot back. I've read numerous accounts of men emptying pistols at each other from within 10' of each other and not hitting anything. I've watched a gent at a match shoot the pattern of a star into a target from 15 yards with an original Remington. That said I also know of a modern USAF SP that shot and killed an active shooter at 75 yards with a M9 Berretta pistol. So it is as much about training and desperation as it is about inherent accuracy.

 

[johan_steele]

As a note there is also the Kerr and the Adams revolvers.

 

[Story]

I'd submit that reloading a Remington would not be something done while In Contact with the enemy.

How many participants of this thread have ridden a horse? Can ride a horse?

Just curious.

Full disclosure - it's been 25+ years since I've done so competently.

The Single Action Shooting folks have a sub-group that do this.

https://sassnet.com/Mounted-What-is-001A.php

https://sassnet.com/Course_of_Fire.pdf

The last M1911 Field Manual to include mounted coure of fire practice was from 1940, which the SASS folks seem to have based theirs upon (see Chapter 4, p.96 https://www.ibiblio.org/hyperwar/USA/ref/FM/PDFs/FM23-35.pdf ].

 

[Patrick H]

Here are two and one-half pages of fascinating reading on Colt Navy revolvers, as used by Quantrill's men. The author is William Elsey Connelley and the book is "Quantrill and the Border Wars" published about 1910. Follow my link to the free download and if you are asked for your preference, select PDF so you can see the footnotes. I think the link will take you directly to PP 318-319. Go to page 319 and start reading footnote 8. Continue on pages 320 and 321. Fascinating stuff:

https://archive.org/details/quantrillborderw00connuoft/page/318

There is an inaccuracy in the text. The author says the Colt Navy was the only revolver used by Quantrill's men. They also used Remingtons, and John McCorckle used a heavier caliber Colt Army model for a while, but he didn't care much for it.

In these anecdotes, the author describes instinctive shooting with black powder percussion revolvers which he witnessed in the 1880s. This sort of shooting seems like it would be impossible, but it's a skill that can be learned. In fact, I have seen a WWII training film using Colt 1911 autos and tracer rounds to prove the point.

 

[Ralph Heinz]

Some years ago I had two original M1851 Colt Navies and decided to shoot one of them. I used a round ball and a suitable black powder charge. At about 5' from a 3/4" pine board the round ball didn't penetrate the pine board but merely stuck in it. I concluded that shooting someone with a Colt Navy would surely make them mad unless you got lucky and punctured a lung or hit them in the brain. Today my concealed carry is a .40 S & W with 180 grain bullets.

And to answer the question above about any participants who can ride a horse -- my first paying job was as a horse wrangler in Colorado in 1961 and I've ridden saddle broncs and bulls in PRCA rodeos when I was a teenager and owned horses most of my life until serious injuries put an end to riding two decades ago. I've written articles for Western Horseman and I agree that trying to load a Civil War revolver while riding would be extremely difficult. Even trying to load a cartridge revolver of that time period would have been difficult unless your horse was standing still and you weren't being shot at. It would have been far better to have several revolvers (captured from Yankee cavalry).

 

[Patrick H]

Some years ago I had two original M1851 Colt Navies and decided to shoot one of them. I used a round ball and a suitable black powder charge. At about 5' from a 3/4" pine board the round ball didn't penetrate the pine board but merely stuck in it. I concluded that shooting someone with a Colt Navy would surely make them mad unless you got lucky and punctured a lung or hit them in the brain. Today my concealed carry is a .40 S & W with 180 grain bullets.

And to answer the question above about any participants who can ride a horse -- my first paying job was as a horse wrangler in Colorado in 1961 and I've ridden saddle broncs and bulls in PRCA rodeos when I was a teenager and owned horses most of my life until serious injuries put an end to riding two decades ago. I've written articles for Western Horseman and I agree that trying to load a Civil War revolver while riding would be extremely difficult. Even trying to load a cartridge revolver of that time period would have been difficult unless your horse was standing still and you weren't being shot at. It would have been far better to have several revolvers (captured from Yankee cavalry).

With all due respect, I would say your black powder charge was less than suitable.

 

[BillO]

The Remington was much easier to load as no wedge was involved. Nobody saying it was easy, but they did it.

I somehow doubt that.