Muzzleldrs 1861 Austrian Lorenz

[vforge]

I was lucky enough to find this on Facebook marketplace. Not sure how it wasn't removed. Old lady had it sitting above her fireplace for the past 30 years. She's now selling the house and decided to sell it. Its in good shape. Someone must have cleaned it up at some point but the lock functions well and the bore is in far better shape than I expected. I ended up buying it from her. It has some very visible markings I wanted to see if anyone could identify.

 

[bayonet]

I take it she hardly ever used her fireplace. Due to it looking in good shape. You should never hang them over the fireplace, dries out the wood. That's a bunch of false history that back in the day folks hung them over the fireplace.

 

[Conquerordie]

Does it have a cheekpiece?

 

[vforge]

I take it she hardly ever used her fireplace. Due to it looking in good shape. You should never hang them over the fireplace, dries out the wood. That's a bunch of false history that back in the day folks hung them over the fireplace.

I don't think she ever used it. Here's the photo from the listing. Looks nice but glad she never used it.

 

[vforge]

Does it have a cheekpiece?

It does not.

 

[Conquerordie]

It does not.

Ok, then we can safely say it is a M1854 Lorenz export variant, with a Type 2 sight. Is it .54 or .58 caliber?

The Austrian military guns all had cheekpieces, but when the Civil War started, in order to raise money to upgrade their own muskets with the M1862 Lorenz, they started selling guns to both North and South. Besides these military guns, they used a variety of new and used parts and assembled them into guns to also sell to us. These guns didn't have cheekpieces to speed up production, use stock blanks they might not have been accepted into Austria service, and the Americans didnt use cheek pieces on most of our muskets anyways. Export variants were made to ship to either of the warring sides during the Civil War.

 

[vforge]

Ok, then we can safely say it is a M1854 Lorenz export variant, with a Type 2 sight. Is it .54 or .58 caliber?

The Austrian military guns all had cheekpieces, but when the Civil War started, in order to raise money to upgrade their own muskets with the M1862 Lorenz, they started selling guns to both North and South. Besides these military guns, they used a variety of new and used parts and assembled them into guns to also sell to us. These guns didn't have cheekpieces to speed up production, use stock blanks they might not have been accepted into Austria service, and the Americans didnt use cheek pieces on most of our muskets anyways. Export variants were made to ship to either of the warring sides during the Civil War.

It is .58 caliber

 

[vforge]

Some pictures of barrel markings and lock internals

 

[iron bender]

Really nice Lorenz. Congrats!

 

[vforge]

Really nice Lorenz. Congrats!

Thank you! Everything except for the lock is matching, including some of the screws. I would not have expected them to stamp the screws like they did.

 

[iron bender]

Thank you! Everything except for the lock is matching, including some of the screws. I would not have expected them to stamp the screws like they did.

I recently picked up my first 54 Lorenz. I thought the same, everything matches except the lock internals. Seems the locks were numbered by the lock builder and don't match the rest of the rifle. I'd bet your rifle is as built.

 

[Don Dixon]

The number "31" on the internal parts of the lock is the number of the lock maker who built the lock. Too bad the bridle is broken. If you can find another marked "31" it will probably fit, but one by another lock maker may or may not, since these weapons were the artisanal product of hand and machine technology to standard gauges. The two word mark on the top of the barrel near the breech is the mark of the contractor who built the weapon, but I can't read it in your photo. The Kaiser's double headed eagle marks on the barrel and lock are acceptance marks. The other marks are assembly and inspection marks for which no crib sheet exists.

Regards,
Don Dixon

 

[vforge]

The number "31" on the internal parts of the lock is the number of the lock maker who built the lock. Too bad the bridle is broken. If you can find another marked "31" it will probably fit, but one by another lock maker may or may not, since these weapons were the artisanal product of hand and machine technology to standard gauges. The two word mark on the top of the barrel near the breech is the mark of the contractor who built the weapon, but I can't read it in your photo. The Kaiser's double headed eagle marks on the barrel and lock are acceptance marks. The other marks are assembly and inspection marks for which no crib sheet exists.

Regards,
Don Dixon

Thank you! I'm going to work on deciphering the contractor's name. I'll post a better photo of it.

 

[JackADriscoll]

Get a bayonet for it. They have one of my favorite socket bayonets they're just dangerous looking. Here's a relic one I have.

 

[yulzari]

That split bridle can be welded back together and drilled/reamed back to the original size. Careful work but not difficult for a good welder. With care the stamped number can be preserved. Otherwise the original forms an accurate pattern to make a replacement.

 

[vforge]

Get a bayonet for it. They have one of my favorite socket bayonets they're just dangerous looking. Here's a relic one I have.

View attachment 583538

I plan on it. Already ordered a rod for it.

 

[vforge]

That split bridle can be welded back together and drilled/reamed back to the original size. Careful work but not difficult for a good welder. With care the stamped number can be preserved. Otherwise the original forms an accurate pattern to make a replacement.

I have a welder and machine tools. I considered making a replacement. But I'd rather repair the original. I just need to practice my tig welding a little bit first.