1859 Sharps Rifle... Help

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Gettysburg, PA
#1
Folks,

I signed up for a Gettysburg ‘Association of Licensed Battlefield Guides’ Seminar the weekend of April 8th and 9th… “Wearing the Green: Hiram Berdan and his Elite Union Sharpshooters” which caused me to dust off (not really) my Sharps New Model 1859 Rifle (serial #39869) and peruse some material I had on Sharps Rifles.

I have always been under the impression that the Berdan Sharps Rifles were in the serial number range of 54,000 to 57,000… plus or minus. Re-reading Frank Sellers book (Sharps Firearms), I noticed that he indicates “Most of the Sharpshooters’ rifles (1,500) were issued without set triggers or special finishes. They were New Model 1859 riles with 30-inch barrels. Their serial number range is from 35,000 to 57,000, with a scattered few above this.” Something I also apparently missed in Coates & MacAulay’s book (Civil War Sharps Carbines and Rifles) was a blip indicating “A little-known fact on the Berdan rifles is that the pin punch mark found in the inside cover of the patchbox is the final inspection and approval mark made by John Taylor.

I started to search the Internet and in addition to getting some very annoying Ad-Ware… I found a blip on http.www.berdansharpshooter.org/sharps.htm that indicates “serial range 39573-40872: This is a second range which is believed to have consisted of a few rifles that were ‘on hand’ at the beginning of the Berdan contract and were used to begin filling Berdan’s order. They may have been single triggers that were replaced with double triggers. Some rifles exist in this range, but do not have the ‘J.T.’ inspector mark or do they fit the profile of a Berdan special order rifle. No documented rifles exist and is estimated that less than 25 rifles in this serial number range may have been produced.” The information also indicates that Army inspector John Taylor and others were borrowed from the Colt factory and inspected the 2,000 special order Berdan Sharps Rifles and his inspector mark was a ‘JT’ cartouche on the buttstock and/or a ‘T’ on the barrel at the breech.

My Internet search also identified several Sharps Rifles with double set triggers that were previously for sale (in the 54,000+ serial number range) that have this pin punch mark in the inside cover of the patchbox. Some have the ‘JT’ cartouche.

My Sharps Rifle serial number 39869 has a pin punch mark inside the cover of the patchbox but only has a single trigger. It has a 30 inch barrel, is fitted for a socket bayonet and has all the standard Sharps markings. The sight appears to be graduated to either 700 or 800 yards. No cartouche is visible but numerous other apparent inspector markings are… including a ‘T’ on the inside of the lock.

My quest for assistance… can anyone point me to any additional information regarding identifying possible Berdan Sharps Rifles with serial numbers earlier than 54,000? My research also indicated that Sharps Rifles either assigned to or initially earmarked for Berdan’s Sharpshooters were subsequently utilized by others.

It would be too much to hope for a Berdan Rifle but… also nice to know some background including who may have inspected the Rifle.

Thanks!
Ed K.
 

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#2
www.BerdanSharpshooters.com
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The Question of Double Set Triggers or Single Trigger
http://www.berdansharpshooters.com/usssbb/viewtopic.php?f=32&t=244 Page 1 of 1
Author: john42768 [ Sun Feb 12, 2012 9:30 pm ]
Post subject: The Question of Double Set Triggers or Single Trigger
Let me start by prefixing that I don’t claim to be an expert on this subject. After 150 years the resolution of this question will still remain unanswered. Late fall I purchased a rifle, online on a layaway plan. It is a Sharps NM1859, 30” barrel, .52 cal., without bayonet lug, T on left barrel flat, correct sight, matching serial number on bottom of barrel along with inspector JW, all metal marking correct, the letter o under the rear band on top of barrel, John Taylor approval punch mark on inside of patch box door, single trigger, all with even wear and patina. The serial number is 56399 which puts in the middle of the accepted range. There is no JT cartouche as It came with a civil war period stock with sub inspectors markings T.W.R.(Thomas W. Russell) on forearm and S.M.H.(?) on butt. Therefore making it other then the original stock. So checking the mortise cutout to see if it ever had DST is out the window. The T may stand for Lt. Ebber Thompson USN. I received it this January. In the months of waiting I started researching the Bredan’s Order Sharps rifles. The following is a collection of info, facts ”or not”, from well know books, online and articles that I could find showing any related reference.
At this time in history the Sharps manufacturing factory was made up of a large number of subcontractor gunsmiths all under one roof. Once the fighting broke out, Sharps was inundated with US government orders for the NM1859 carbine. Carbines were the popular choice of the Army. Orders for rifles were very few in the early War years . The “standard” military version of the rifle had a bayonet lug for the saber bayonet. It came 30 inch, .52 and special orders of .56 caliber and 36 inch barrel.
Executive Document #99 was produced at the request of the House of Representatives in 1867. It basically is a listing of all US arms purchased during the War years. Going by this official listing, it showed an average of 500 carbines per week consistently purchased and delivered by Sharps. The entries from 1861 thru 1863 for rifles show approximately 120 with saber bayonet and 2000 in Spring 1862 with socket bayonet (Berdan Order). There were approximately 6000 rifles ordered in 1865. Probably these were NM1863. All other Sharps factory orders were for carbines in the multiple thousands. There were some other small purchases of Sharps rifles from other private sources.
1) Berdans’ United States Sharpshooters in the Army of the Potomac by Capt. C.A. Stevens in 1892 He relates no reference one way or the other.
2) The Sharps Rifle by Winston E. Smith in 1943 only references serial number 55948 as socket bayonet single trigger.
3) Civil War Guns by William B. Edwards in 1962. He states a few of the rifles were fitted with DST. He estimates NM1859 range to be 32833-73602.
4) Military Sharps Rifles & Carbines Vol.1 by Richard E. Hopkins in 1967 estimates range to be 32000-74000. References #56736 to be socket bayonet with DST at the West Point Museum.
5) Selecting A Sniper Rifle: The Unions Hard Quest by Wiley Sword in 1975 appeared in American Rifleman in April, 1975. He estimates Berdan NM1859 range of 55900-57900. He states that no carbines were observed in this sequence of numbers. He references from ED#99 that 3133 carbines were produced in February and March of 1862. Carbine production was suspended until Berdans rifle order was completed in May, 1862. The carbines resumed in June, 1862. He mentions 55990 & 56113 as being DST and 57850 as single trigger.
6) Sharps Firearms by Frank Sellers in 1978 estimates NM1859 range of 35000-57000. He states that at least one of the four shipments (500) had DST, but most (1500) would have been single trigger. A total of 9141 rifles purchased 1861-1865 with the majority being NM1863 model. He references 56739 as socket bayonet DST and 46397, 57851 as socket bayonet single trigger.
7) Civil War Breech Loading Rifles by John D. McAulay in 1987. He estimates range of 54400-57600. He states that probably all were DST. References 54580 as socket bayonet DST. He list numbers, without description, from Col. Trepps Papers. 54858, 55085, 55820, 56371, 56386, 56974, 57131, 57266, 57428, 57471 & 57574.
8) Sharpshooter: Hiram Berdan, his famous Sharpshooters and their Sharps Rifles by Wiley Sword in 1988. He revises his estimates range to 54390-57474. He now believes about one third in that range to be carbines. He states that in March, 1863 all rifles were turned in from the 1st USSS Regiment for replacement. The replacements would have been left over new rifles and repaired or replenished rifles. Many of the rifles were continuously being repaired due to battle damage, exposure to the elements and plain wear. He refers to Col. Trepps listed as above as documented. He references 54728 & 54767 as being restocked. He also list single trigger rifles in the range as 55047, 55048, 56176, 56293, 56344, 56775, 56781, 56904, 57106 & 57361. This list comprised of repaired, reconditioned or left over reserve.
9) Civil War Chief of Sharpshooter, Hiram Berdan by Roy M. Marcot in 1989. He estimates range of 54374-57567 approximately 3200. He states that Regimental Armors would repair damaged arms however possible with parts that were available. He references 54716 & 56906 as socket bayonet DST and 57814 as socket bayonet with single trigger. Using a 2% sampling of 66 arms he came up with 65% DST, 7% single trigger and 27% carbines. How accurate this is remains unknown.
10) Civil War Sharps Carbines & Rifles by Earl J. Coates & John D. McAulay in 1996. They estimate range of 54374-57574 based on lowest and highest know sample. They reference the little known fact that John Taylor final inspection mark was a punch on the inside of the patch box door. The book contains many thousands of serial numbers. Most are carbines. After going through all the known numbers I could only come up with nine (9) carbines, less then 1% , in the range out of thousands of carbine listings. Those were 56494, 57014, 57019, 57300, 57305, 57312, 57316, 57549 & 57701. The majority fall on the high end. They list 179 rifles that were used by the 42nd Pennsylvania Buck Tails. 118 fall from 54373-55886 and 61 from 55900-57900. A great resource book.
11) Civil War Firearms by Joseph G. Bilby in 1996. He states that in March of 1863 both Regiments were resupplied with new, repaired or refurbished arms.
12) The Best the Union Could Muster by Michael L. Fahle in 1998. He references 55988 as DST socket bayonet issued to Pvt. James Biggins, Co. C 2nd USSS.
13) Rifles of the U.S. Army 1861-1906 by John D. McAulay in 2003. He states some were purchased with single triggers.
14) U.S. Sharpshooters, Berdan’s Civil War Elite by Roy M. Marcot in 2007. He references 56745 as DST socket bayonet as issued to Pvt. George Albee, Co. G, 1st USSS. Refer back to #9 for his other references.
So when you have digested this list of various different ranges with the wide spread quanity opinions as to DST or Single triggers can we really ever know? I feel strongly, with less the 1% known carbine, that these could have been overruns or originally rejected receivers that were reused. I’m in a mind to agree with Wiley Swords original article from 1975 in that there were no carbines in the range. I also feel my rifle, falling well within the serial range, played a part with either the Sharpshooters , the 42nd Pennsylvania or other companies. It then ended up being restocked and or repaired. So where are the other remaining Berdan rifles that were not destroyed in the War? Will a listing ever turn up to clear up this question? If I have messed up on a number somewhere, I’m sorry. I’m only going from info that I found. Feel free to add something I may have missed.

I don't know if any of this might help you, but this is a listing I put together of all the info I could find from many many sources. Hope it will help you or someone else on this quest. John
 

Jobe Holiday

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#3
John42768 - A very well done compilation of Sharps Rifle information, especially with the sources. The story about the "John Taylor punch mark" on the inside of the patch box lid indicating Berdan ordered arms is a myth. Every Sharps Rifle I have looked at, including the New Model 1863's, has had the same punch mark! I just looked at 2 more NM 1863 Rifles today and both of them had the same punch mark. I am of the opinion that the punch mark is nothing more than a hardness test to make sure the patch box door was properly hardened so it wouldn't bend.

Here is yet another unrecorded Berdan serial number for you to add to your research: 55843, JT cartouche, takes a socket bayonet. It is in the private collection of a good friend who has given me access to his extensive arms collection, as long as I maintain his anonymity!
J.
 
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#4
John,

Very very very helpful... even though you don't acknowledge being an expert on the subject, I would submit that you are pretty close.

Appears from your research that Sharps rifles were repaired and reconditioned and then reissued... suggesting a mix mash of parts.

Want to share some more details of mine… just as an FYI: In addition to the receiver marked ‘39869,’ ‘39869x2’ is stamped on the underside of the barrel. Interior of the lock is marked ‘T’ and ‘1.’ ‘H’ is marked inside the trigger guard, on the top of the trigger, on the trigger latch and inside the patchbox. ‘O’ is in the wood on the front of the stock. ‘S’ and ‘1’ are stamped in the wood at the rear of the forestock. ‘3____' is stamped in the wood inside the forestock at the rear. ‘P’ is on the interior of the forestock screw port. ‘U’ is on the forward barrel band. The gun is overall brown patina and looks like it has been together forever.

The seminar indicated that on Friday night there will be examples of Berdan Sharps Rifles to fondle. I plan to bring mine to get some opinions... which I will share with you.

Thanks again for your detailed response!

Ed K.
 
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#5
J.

Thank you for the clarification on the punch mark. I have had this Sharps for many years and never rally noticed the punch mark until signing up for the Seminar which caused me to take a closer look at mine and re-read/Internet search alleged details associated with Berdan Sharps Rifles.

Thanks again! I have never had the opportunity to compare my Sharps' patchbox with others.

Ed K.
 

johan_steele

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#6
To add to the confusion is California Joe and his Sharps Rifle. It was noted, fondled and appreciated by a lot of the men in the regiment and some went the way as California Joe and purchased their own Sharps rifle prior to the govt issue. Those would have almost certainly been sabre bayonet models. The number privately purchased is unknown though IIRC a number was put forward of 20-25. This is only confused by several men who brought their own civilian model Sharps rifles to the regiment with them.

But to add even more confusion to the subject when the Sharps that were in need of refurbishment were sent to armories they would have been stripped down cleaned, repaired and put back together. As the Sharps was an interchangeable arm there was absolutely no reason carbine parts would not have entered the mess. I have seen a Sharps rifle in the Berdan S/N range with the rear sight from the earlier navy contract. The question becomes when was that rear sight added? I was only about $5k short...
 

Michael W.

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#7
www.BerdanSharpshooters.com
http://www.berdansharpshooters.com/usssbb/

The Question of Double Set Triggers or Single Trigger
http://www.berdansharpshooters.com/usssbb/viewtopic.php?f=32&t=244 Page 1 of 1
Author: john42768 [ Sun Feb 12, 2012 9:30 pm ]
Post subject: The Question of Double Set Triggers or Single Trigger
Let me start by prefixing that I don’t claim to be an expert on this subject. After 150 years the resolution of this question will still remain unanswered. Late fall I purchased a rifle, online on a layaway plan. It is a Sharps NM1859, 30” barrel, .52 cal., without bayonet lug, T on left barrel flat, correct sight, matching serial number on bottom of barrel along with inspector JW, all metal marking correct, the letter o under the rear band on top of barrel, John Taylor approval punch mark on inside of patch box door, single trigger, all with even wear and patina. The serial number is 56399 which puts in the middle of the accepted range. There is no JT cartouche as It came with a civil war period stock with sub inspectors markings T.W.R.(Thomas W. Russell) on forearm and S.M.H.(?) on butt. Therefore making it other then the original stock. So checking the mortise cutout to see if it ever had DST is out the window. The T may stand for Lt. Ebber Thompson USN. I received it this January. In the months of waiting I started researching the Bredan’s Order Sharps rifles. The following is a collection of info, facts ”or not”, from well know books, online and articles that I could find showing any related reference.
At this time in history the Sharps manufacturing factory was made up of a large number of subcontractor gunsmiths all under one roof. Once the fighting broke out, Sharps was inundated with US government orders for the NM1859 carbine. Carbines were the popular choice of the Army. Orders for rifles were very few in the early War years . The “standard” military version of the rifle had a bayonet lug for the saber bayonet. It came 30 inch, .52 and special orders of .56 caliber and 36 inch barrel.
Executive Document #99 was produced at the request of the House of Representatives in 1867. It basically is a listing of all US arms purchased during the War years. Going by this official listing, it showed an average of 500 carbines per week consistently purchased and delivered by Sharps. The entries from 1861 thru 1863 for rifles show approximately 120 with saber bayonet and 2000 in Spring 1862 with socket bayonet (Berdan Order). There were approximately 6000 rifles ordered in 1865. Probably these were NM1863. All other Sharps factory orders were for carbines in the multiple thousands. There were some other small purchases of Sharps rifles from other private sources.
1) Berdans’ United States Sharpshooters in the Army of the Potomac by Capt. C.A. Stevens in 1892 He relates no reference one way or the other.
2) The Sharps Rifle by Winston E. Smith in 1943 only references serial number 55948 as socket bayonet single trigger.
3) Civil War Guns by William B. Edwards in 1962. He states a few of the rifles were fitted with DST. He estimates NM1859 range to be 32833-73602.
4) Military Sharps Rifles & Carbines Vol.1 by Richard E. Hopkins in 1967 estimates range to be 32000-74000. References #56736 to be socket bayonet with DST at the West Point Museum.
5) Selecting A Sniper Rifle: The Unions Hard Quest by Wiley Sword in 1975 appeared in American Rifleman in April, 1975. He estimates Berdan NM1859 range of 55900-57900. He states that no carbines were observed in this sequence of numbers. He references from ED#99 that 3133 carbines were produced in February and March of 1862. Carbine production was suspended until Berdans rifle order was completed in May, 1862. The carbines resumed in June, 1862. He mentions 55990 & 56113 as being DST and 57850 as single trigger.
6) Sharps Firearms by Frank Sellers in 1978 estimates NM1859 range of 35000-57000. He states that at least one of the four shipments (500) had DST, but most (1500) would have been single trigger. A total of 9141 rifles purchased 1861-1865 with the majority being NM1863 model. He references 56739 as socket bayonet DST and 46397, 57851 as socket bayonet single trigger.
7) Civil War Breech Loading Rifles by John D. McAulay in 1987. He estimates range of 54400-57600. He states that probably all were DST. References 54580 as socket bayonet DST. He list numbers, without description, from Col. Trepps Papers. 54858, 55085, 55820, 56371, 56386, 56974, 57131, 57266, 57428, 57471 & 57574.
8) Sharpshooter: Hiram Berdan, his famous Sharpshooters and their Sharps Rifles by Wiley Sword in 1988. He revises his estimates range to 54390-57474. He now believes about one third in that range to be carbines. He states that in March, 1863 all rifles were turned in from the 1st USSS Regiment for replacement. The replacements would have been left over new rifles and repaired or replenished rifles. Many of the rifles were continuously being repaired due to battle damage, exposure to the elements and plain wear. He refers to Col. Trepps listed as above as documented. He references 54728 & 54767 as being restocked. He also list single trigger rifles in the range as 55047, 55048, 56176, 56293, 56344, 56775, 56781, 56904, 57106 & 57361. This list comprised of repaired, reconditioned or left over reserve.
9) Civil War Chief of Sharpshooter, Hiram Berdan by Roy M. Marcot in 1989. He estimates range of 54374-57567 approximately 3200. He states that Regimental Armors would repair damaged arms however possible with parts that were available. He references 54716 & 56906 as socket bayonet DST and 57814 as socket bayonet with single trigger. Using a 2% sampling of 66 arms he came up with 65% DST, 7% single trigger and 27% carbines. How accurate this is remains unknown.
10) Civil War Sharps Carbines & Rifles by Earl J. Coates & John D. McAulay in 1996. They estimate range of 54374-57574 based on lowest and highest know sample. They reference the little known fact that John Taylor final inspection mark was a punch on the inside of the patch box door. The book contains many thousands of serial numbers. Most are carbines. After going through all the known numbers I could only come up with nine (9) carbines, less then 1% , in the range out of thousands of carbine listings. Those were 56494, 57014, 57019, 57300, 57305, 57312, 57316, 57549 & 57701. The majority fall on the high end. They list 179 rifles that were used by the 42nd Pennsylvania Buck Tails. 118 fall from 54373-55886 and 61 from 55900-57900. A great resource book.
11) Civil War Firearms by Joseph G. Bilby in 1996. He states that in March of 1863 both Regiments were resupplied with new, repaired or refurbished arms.
12) The Best the Union Could Muster by Michael L. Fahle in 1998. He references 55988 as DST socket bayonet issued to Pvt. James Biggins, Co. C 2nd USSS.
13) Rifles of the U.S. Army 1861-1906 by John D. McAulay in 2003. He states some were purchased with single triggers.
14) U.S. Sharpshooters, Berdan’s Civil War Elite by Roy M. Marcot in 2007. He references 56745 as DST socket bayonet as issued to Pvt. George Albee, Co. G, 1st USSS. Refer back to #9 for his other references.
So when you have digested this list of various different ranges with the wide spread quanity opinions as to DST or Single triggers can we really ever know? I feel strongly, with less the 1% known carbine, that these could have been overruns or originally rejected receivers that were reused. I’m in a mind to agree with Wiley Swords original article from 1975 in that there were no carbines in the range. I also feel my rifle, falling well within the serial range, played a part with either the Sharpshooters , the 42nd Pennsylvania or other companies. It then ended up being restocked and or repaired. So where are the other remaining Berdan rifles that were not destroyed in the War? Will a listing ever turn up to clear up this question? If I have messed up on a number somewhere, I’m sorry. I’m only going from info that I found. Feel free to add something I may have missed.

I don't know if any of this might help you, but this is a listing I put together of all the info I could find from many many sources. Hope it will help you or someone else on this quest. John
You mentioned that the "T" in the inspector markings might have been a naval officer on your Sharps. Are you thinking there is a possibility yours may have been issued to the Navy? Sharps rifles and carbines were both issued to the Navy, but if my memory is correct there were no naval markings, or overall serial number recordings of Navy issued Sharps. The carbines that exists today that do not have the saddle ring bar attachment tend to be considered "Navy carbines", but as far as identifying Sharps Rifles USN issued, I don't know if that is possible.
 
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#9
John42768 - A very well done compilation of Sharps Rifle information, especially with the sources. The story about the "John Taylor punch mark" on the inside of the patch box lid indicating Berdan ordered arms is a myth. Every Sharps Rifle I have looked at, including the New Model 1863's, has had the same punch mark! I just looked at 2 more NM 1863 Rifles today and both of them had the same punch mark. I am of the opinion that the punch mark is nothing more than a hardness test to make sure the patch box door was properly hardened so it wouldn't bend.

Here is yet another unrecorded Berdan serial number for you to add to your research: 55843, JT cartouche, takes a socket bayonet. It is in the private collection of a good friend who has given me access to his extensive arms collection, as long as I maintain his anonymity!
J.
Jobe, Is #55843 a single or DST? You could very well be correct on the patch box marking. I am only going by the info I found by the authors. Thanks, John
 
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#10
You mentioned that the "T" in the inspector markings might have been a naval officer on your Sharps. Are you thinking there is a possibility yours may have been issued to the Navy? Sharps rifles and carbines were both issued to the Navy, but if my memory is correct there were no naval markings, or overall serial number recordings of Navy issued Sharps. The carbines that exists today that do not have the saddle ring bar attachment tend to be considered "Navy carbines", but as far as identifying Sharps Rifles USN issued, I don't know if that is possible.
Micheal, No the Navy issue rifles had a lug for a saber bayonet. The Army issue were socket type bayonet. With regard to the "T" aka Lt. E. Thompson , a military inspector was"loaned" to get the Sharp's order for Col. Berdan processed as many delays had kept the delivery from happening in a timely order. Thanks, John
 

Jobe Holiday

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#12
JOHN42768 - Yes, it is a DST version. I know Jerry Coates and will ask him about the punch mark the next time I see him.

No, the Sharps Model 1859 Navy Carbines are not Sharps & Hankins Carbines. For an easy reference take a look at Flayderman's Guide to Antique American Arms under the Sharps M-1859 Carbine list.
J.
 
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#13
To add to the confusion is California Joe and his Sharps Rifle. It was noted, fondled and appreciated by a lot of the men in the regiment and some went the way as California Joe and purchased their own Sharps rifle prior to the govt issue. Those would have almost certainly been sabre bayonet models. The number privately purchased is unknown though IIRC a number was put forward of 20-25. This is only confused by several men who brought their own civilian model Sharps rifles to the regiment with them.

But to add even more confusion to the subject when the Sharps that were in need of refurbishment were sent to armories they would have been stripped down cleaned, repaired and put back together. As the Sharps was an interchangeable arm there was absolutely no reason carbine parts would not have entered the mess. I have seen a Sharps rifle in the Berdan S/N range with the rear sight from the earlier navy contract. The question becomes when was that rear sight added? I was only about $5k short...
Johan, I believe the first repair would have been the company armorer and if needed then back to an arsenal. Yes, "California Joe" and a lot of different conclusions by the various authors do muddy the waters. Like the single or DST question may never be answered. Thanks, John
 
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#14
JOHN42768 - Yes, it is a DST version. I know Jerry Coates and will ask him about the punch mark the next time I see him.

No, the Sharps Model 1859 Navy Carbines are not Sharps & Hankins Carbines. For an easy reference take a look at Flayderman's Guide to Antique American Arms under the Sharps M-1859 Carbine list.
J.
Jobe, Let us know his response. Civil War Sharps Carbines & Rifles by Earl J. Coates & John D. McAulay was where the info came from about the patch box mark. I've spoken with him a little while back as I purchased a 1860 identified Spencer Rifle (5th Ohio Indep. S.S.) that he had owned prior to the owner I bought it from. John
 
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#15
J.

Thank you for the clarification on the punch mark. I have had this Sharps for many years and never rally noticed the punch mark until signing up for the Seminar which caused me to take a closer look at mine and re-read/Internet search alleged details associated with Berdan Sharps Rifles.

Thanks again! I have never had the opportunity to compare my Sharps' patchbox with others.

Ed K.
Ed, When you attend the seminar, bring up the patch box mark for comments. Jobe has pointed out that he has seen it on almost all Sharps, so it may not mean anything other then a hardness test marking. John
 
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#16
John,

I will bring up the patch box comments and report back and... bring my Sharps so folks at the Seminar can peruse.

As an aside... I also have a Spencer Rifle identified to the Fifth Independent Company of Ohio Volunteer Sharpshooters. Serial #2468 identified to Samuel A. Crocker.

Thanks everyone for your input!
Ed K.
 
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#19
John,

I will bring up the patch box comments and report back and... bring my Sharps so folks at the Seminar can peruse.

As an aside... I also have a Spencer Rifle identified to the Fifth Independent Company of Ohio Volunteer Sharpshooters. Serial #2468 identified to Samuel A. Crocker.

Thanks everyone for your input!
Ed K.
Ed, Cor.Samuel Crocker is listed in the rooster right next to Cor. Edward P. Thompson #2383. If you can enlarge my avatar it shows Thompson, but don't see Crocker. Must be on another sheet. Do you have any other history other then online. I have muster sheets, pension info and some other info, but only regimental history on line. Very good chance they knew each other. John
 

Michael W.

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#20
Micheal, No the Navy issue rifles had a lug for a saber bayonet. The Army issue were socket type bayonet. With regard to the "T" aka Lt. E. Thompson , a military inspector was"loaned" to get the Sharp's order for Col. Berdan processed as many delays had kept the delivery from happening in a timely order. Thanks, John
You are correct, sir, I forgot about the saber bayonet lug. Too much info running around in my head......:smile:
 

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