Hooker's greatest accomplishment?

[MikeyB]

Would you agree that Hooker's greatest accomplishment and contribution to the Union cause was his reorganization of the AotP in the winter and spring of 1862-1863? You had a badly demoralized army after the Fredericksburg campaign. Camp living conditions were slipping and the misery index in winter, rising. With reinvigorated drilling, a corps badge system that instilled pride, improved rationing, cleaning up the camps, and other reforms, the men felt like soldiers again. Finally, his reorganization of the cavalry corps contributed to a much more effective arm that was able to fight well at Brandy Station, and perhaps also contributed to the effective execution at the beginning of the Gettysburg campaign. I believe the one blemish of these efforts might have been tying Henry Hunt's hands with respect to the artillery organization. (If I recall, Hooker realized his mistake at the end of Chancellorsville?)The improved morale certainly helped when it came time to re-upping soldiers at the end of their 2 year enlistments and a better fed, healthier, and higher morale fighting machine was critical for the engagements to come at Chancellorsville and perhaps much more importantly, Gettysburg. Could Burnside's army of 1862, led by Meade and the same generals have beaten Lee at Gettysburg? I think its highly doubtful.

So two questions:
1) Do you agree that this was Hooker's greatest contribution to the Union war effort?
2) Do his actions come even close to the reorganization and building efforts of the AotP originally undertaken by McClellan? Could you argue these actions were at least almost as critical given how the war was going in December of 1862?

 

[leftyhunter]

Would you agree that Hooker's greatest accomplishment and contribution to the Union cause was his reorganization of the AotP in the winter and spring of 1862-1863? You had a badly demoralized army after the Fredericksburg campaign. Camp living conditions were slipping and the misery index in winter, rising. With reinvigorated drilling, a corps badge system that instilled pride, improved rationing, cleaning up the camps, and other reforms, the men felt like soldiers again. Finally, his reorganization of the cavalry corps contributed to a much more effective arm that was able to fight well at Brandy Station, and perhaps also contributed to the effective execution at the beginning of the Gettysburg campaign. I believe the one blemish of these efforts might have been tying Henry Hunt's hands with respect to the artillery organization. (If I recall, Hooker realized his mistake at the end of Chancellorsville?)The improved morale certainly helped when it came time to re-upping soldiers at the end of their 2 year enlistments and a better fed, healthier, and higher morale fighting machine was critical for the engagements to come at Chancellorsville and perhaps much more importantly, Gettysburg. Could Burnside's army of 1862, led by Meade and the same generals have beaten Lee at Gettysburg? I think its highly doubtful.

So two questions:
1) Do you agree that this was Hooker's greatest contribution to the Union war effort?
2) Do his actions come even close to the reorganization and building efforts of the AotP originally undertaken by McClellan? Could you argue these actions were at least almost as critical given how the war was going in December of 1862?

Hooker also cut down the serious rise in desertions post Fredericksburg.
Hooker and his 20k man Corps broke the Siege of Chattanooga. In one battle in Georgia Hooker was outnumbered but still won the battle.
Leftyhunter

 

[jackt62]

1. Yes, his reorganization of the AOTP after Burnsides' disasters at Fredricksburg and the Mud March were instrumental in shaping that fighting force that eventually won the war in the East.
2. Hooker and McClellan were master administrators and organizers who strengthened the fighting ability of the AOTP at different periods. My impression is that their actions were both critical at their respective times in building the AOTP.

 

[Don Dixon]

I would add Hooker's creation of the Bureau of Military Information, the Army of the Potomac's (AOP) "G2" shop, as part of his reorganization of the AOP. It subsequently provided critical, analized, all-source [to the extent that you could describe intelligence collection in the Civil War as all-source] intelligence to Generals Meade and Grant.

Regards,
Don Dixon

 

[Jimklag]

I would add Hooker's creation of the Bureau of Military Information, the Army of the Potomac's (AOP) "G2" shop, as part of his reorganization of the AOP. It subsequently provided critical, analized, all-source [to the extent that you could describe intelligence collection in the Civil War as all-source] intelligence to Generals Meade and Grant.

Regards,
Don Dixon

I agree. The BMI was his most significant and long-lasting contribution.

 

[Andy Cardinal]

I would rate BMI #1 and the organization of the cavalry into an independent corps as #1A.

 

[Ole Miss]

Perhaps his greatest lasting contribution would be his nom de guerre for the working women who followed the troops!
Regards
David

 

[leftyhunter]

Perhaps his greatest lasting contribution would be his nom de guerre for the working women who followed the troops!
Regards
David

Actually per prior threads the term "Hooker" is an antebellum term for prostitutes.Prostitutes have been following armies since at least the Roman Era. Quite a few prostitutes hung around Richmond. Confederate soldiers were lucky if they could feed themselves let alone camp followers.
Leftyhunter

 

[Ole Miss]

Why ruin a good story with facts? GGGrandfather hanging around soilded doves? Perish the thought!!!
Regards
David

 

[leftyhunter]

Why ruin a good story with facts? GGGrandfather hanging around soilded doves? Perish the thought!!!
Regards
David

Well boys will be boys but back in the day being treated for STDs was no joke. Our medical forum would have plenty of gory details.
Most soiled doves where just women trying to feed their kids as the breadwinner was often dead, wounded or in a Pow Camp.
More of a sad then naughty situation.
Leftyhunter

 

[Josh The Lighthouse Guy]

Hooker built the army that won Gettysburg.

 

[jackt62]

Captain Charles Francis Adams Jr. had this to say about Joe Hooker's leadership of the AOTP:

"The headquarters of the Army of the Potomac was a place to which no self-respecting man liked to go, and no decent woman could go. It was a combination of barroom and brothel."

 

[JeffBrooks]

1) Do you agree that this was Hooker's greatest contribution to the Union war effort?
2) Do his actions come even close to the reorganization and building efforts of the AotP originally undertaken by McClellan? Could you argue these actions were at least almost as critical given how the war was going in December of 1862?

Yes and yes.

 

[leftyhunter]

Captain Charles Francis Adams Jr. had this to say about Joe Hooker's leadership of the AOTP:

"The headquarters of the Army of the Potomac was a place to which no self-respecting man liked to go, and no decent woman could go. It was a combination of barroom and brothel."

It is vitally important to maintain good morale..
What Adams perceives as a defect many men would perceive as an asset.
Leftyhunter

 

[matthew mckeon]

On the battlefield, his corps seizing Lookout Mountain.

 

[OpnCoronet]

.

So two questions:
1) Do you agree that this was Hooker's greatest contribution to the Union war effort?
2) Do his actions come even close to the reorganization and building efforts of the AotP originally undertaken by McClellan? Could you argue these actions were at least almost as critical given how the war was going in December of 1862?

I agree that the AoP, as most people tend to think of it, was the creation of Hooker. It can be argued, I think, that it was probably the greatest single contribution to the winning of the War in the East.

IMO, the mindset of Hooker and his officers, makes it difficult for me to assume Hooker could come close to defeating Lee. However, I believe he did indeed, come close to winning the battle Chancellorsville. When he decided to retreat, Hooker had the bigger army and it was between the two sings of the ANV.

But, as noted before, given the fact that Hooker suffered from the same malady as all other senior officers in the East,, i.e., He had more confidence in Lee than he did in his army, so, it always seems to me that the AoP was closer to victory than was Hooke. After all, he rendered good and effective service before and after Chancellorsville.

 

[Rebforever]

I agree that the AoP, as most people tend to think of it, was the creation of Hooker. It can be argued, I think, that it was probably the greatest single contribution to the winning of the War in the East.

IMO, the mindset of Hooker and his officers, makes it difficult for me to assume Hooker could come close to defeating Lee. However, I believe he did indeed, come close to winning the battle Chancellorsville. When he decided to retreat, Hooker had the bigger army and it was between the two sings of the ANV.

But, as noted before, given the fact that Hooker suffered from the same malady as all other senior officers in the East,, i.e., He had more confidence in Lee than he did in his army, so, it always seems to me that the AoP was closer to victory than was Hooke. After all, he rendered good and effective service before and after Chancellorsville.

The bell ringing, and alcohol to help him get over it, did him in at Chancellorsville. Other than that.

 

[leftyhunter]

I agree that the AoP, as most people tend to think of it, was the creation of Hooker. It can be argued, I think, that it was probably the greatest single contribution to the winning of the War in the East.

IMO, the mindset of Hooker and his officers, makes it difficult for me to assume Hooker could come close to defeating Lee. However, I believe he did indeed, come close to winning the battle Chancellorsville. When he decided to retreat, Hooker had the bigger army and it was between the two sings of the ANV.

But, as noted before, given the fact that Hooker suffered from the same malady as all other senior officers in the East,, i.e., He had more confidence in Lee than he did in his army, so, it always seems to me that the AoP was closer to victory than was Hooke. After all, he rendered good and effective service before and after Chancellorsville.

We also have to keep in mind that Hooker suffered a severe brain concussion during the battle of Chancellorsville. Not sure why there was no clear cut plan to relieve Hooker and have the next closest senior general assume command.
Steven Sears places a lot of blame on the defeat at Chancellorsville due to the poor performance of General Stonemen' s Calvary dithering around and not destroying the Confederate railroads.
Leftyhunter

 

[leftyhunter]

The bell ringing, and alcohol to help him get over it, did him in.

Any sources that alcoholism affected Hooker's performance?
It doesn't say much about Confederate Generals that in future battles that they can't defeat a drunk .
Leftyhunter

 

[MikeyB]

We also have to keep in mind that Hooker suffered a severe brain concussion during the battle of Chancellorsville. Not sure why there was no clear cut plan to relieve Hooker and have the next closest senior general assume command.
Steven Sears places a lot of blame on the defeat at Chancellorsville due to the poor performance of General Stonemen' s Calvary dithering around and not destroying the Confederate railroads.
Leftyhunter

Did they know what concussions were back then? And if so, was it suspected he was suffering one by Couch and the rest of the corps? Or was it like, "oh he's fine, just took a little bump to the head, suck it up Joe!"

Do historians generally believe that he was still concussed at the time of his counsel of war? And that could have impacted his decision to not stay and fight? Or do people generally think he was back to normal, and just folded?