Custer Forrest or Custer

[LoriAnn]

I guess when you imply that Forrest was too backwards and dumb to compete with the West Pointers you're also talking about my dad and many others like him.

If I may sneak in here and say I don't think Cash meant that at all. I think (and correct me if I'm wrong, Cash) he meant that someone like Forrest would have a lot of catching up to do, and that would have been extremely difficult.

Our fathers are very similar. Mine left school at 16, WWII, blue collar, and did really hard crossword puzzles with a pen.

 

[Two Eyed Jack]

If I may sneak in here and say I don't think Cash meant that at all. I think (and correct me if I'm wrong, Cash) he meant that someone like Forrest would have a lot of catching up to do, and that would have been extremely difficult.

Our fathers are very similar. Mine left school at 16, WWII, blue collar, and did really hard crossword puzzles with a pen.

By all means, welcome and you ain't gotta sneak around here, mam.

I'm basing my argument on post #189. Maybe I read it wrong. What's your take?

Is your dad still with us?

 

[diane]

Thousands of poorly prepared students flunk out of colleges and universities every year.

Guess what? Forrest didn't have a big "S" on his chest. He was more poorly prepared for a college environment, especially the West Point environment, than anyone would have been, including Jackson.

Some folks here think Forrest was a combination Einstein/Batman/Superman/Flash/Perry Mason/Incredible Hulk/Patton/Lee/Washington/Napoleon. He wasn't.

I don't! Well, you may have something there with the Hulk... I was simply saying an illiterate person who finally gets the opportunity to learn is gung-ho about it and will often surprise everybody. Not that Forrest was a genius.

 

[diane]

Mosby on a larger scale, and completely useless in anything other than as an independent command.

I was wondering, actually, about the command situation in the West being in the condition it was in. Would Forrest have done better in circumstances more like the one Stuart had? (Just using Stuart as an example here.) Sometimes a commander can bring out the best in someone, and other times he can squelch whatever was there.

 

[LoriAnn]

By all means, welcome and you ain't gotta sneak around here, mam.

I'm basing my argument on post #189. Maybe I read it wrong. What's your take?

Is your dad still with us?

Thank you, Sir.

Okay, I went back and reread that post.

I see where you're coming from here and agree with you...

I'm disputing your assertion that Forrest was too stupid to compete with his contemporaries had he been given the same opportunities that they had.

I would never make that assumption about anyone. Based on Cash's response in post #223, it seems he didn't mean for his reply to come off that way either (but I shall shut up and let him speak for himself). Perhaps this is a miscommunication. (I can't tell you how many times I've had to delete and rewrite a reply out of fear I didn't express myself correctly. I'd make a horrible public speaker. Not kidding ~ this would be me.)

My dad is 89, and though his health is failing, he is still with us. ♥ According to a recent status update on Facebook, he is currently winning in a casino in Vegas.

Has your father passed? If so, please accept my condolences. How lucky we were to have that generation.

 

[Eric Wittenberg]

I was wondering, actually, about the command situation in the West being in the condition it was in. Would Forrest have done better in circumstances more like the one Stuart had? (Just using Stuart as an example here.) Sometimes a commander can bring out the best in someone, and other times he can squelch whatever was there.

Lee never, ever would have tolerated the insubordination. The truth is that Forrest is lucky he wasn't in the Prussian army, because if he had been, he would have been court-martialed and executed on the spot for insubordination.

I reiterate what I've said: armies rely upon discipline. Discipline means that subordinates obey the lawful orders of their superiors. An insubordinate junior--no matter how talented--is useless to an army if he refuses to obey the lawful orders of a superior. This is why I contend that Forrest was largely useless unless in independent command. And then, his independent command was not much more than Mosby on a larger scale.

 

[Eric Wittenberg]

You may be on to something that the military eventually corrected.

He wasn't an infantryman. He wasn't an artilleryman. He wasn't administrative. He wasn't a quarter master. According to you and Cash he wasn't a cavalryman but the Army plugged him in to that because that was the closest thing to what he really was but had not yet been defined:

Spec Ops.

I would simply say mounted infantry. I don't begin to share your high opinion of him, let alone think he deserves such a title. But, that's the beauty of this country: everyone is entitled to his or her opinion and to state it, even if it is wrong. ;-)

 

[Jackson Hornets]

Custer was very young and reckless even if he was an impressive cavalry leader. That being said I don't think he can hold a light to Forrest. Forrest was a brilliant tactician who had a nack for really being able to immediately assess the battlefield and deploy his troopers accordingly. Plus on top of this he rose from the rank of private to Lieutenant General with NO former military experience.

Overall I recognize Custer as a great officer but I don't think his career really can compare to Forrest's.

 

[Eric Wittenberg]

Custer was very young and reckless even if he was an impressive cavalry leader. That being said I don't think he can hold a light to Forrest. Forrest was a brilliant tactician who had a nack for really being able to immediately assess the battlefield and deploy his troopers accordingly. Plus on top of this he rose from the rank of private to Lieutenant General with NO former military experience.

Overall I recognize Custer as a great officer but I don't think his career really can compare to Forrest's.

I understand your point, but I don't view it as a valid comparison. If you want to compare Forrest to Sheridan--corps commander vs. corps commander--that would be a valid comparison. Comparing a brigade commander to a corps commander is not a valid comparison. It's like comparing a Cessna to an F-16.

 

[Jackson Hornets]

I understand your point, but I don't view it as a valid comparison. If you want to compare Forrest to Sheridan--corps commander vs. corps commander--that would be a valid comparison. Comparing a brigade commander to a corps commander is not a valid comparison. It's like comparing a Cessna to an F-16.

I see what you mean and I agree. That being said I was going with what the OP originally asked although it's hard to compare a corps commander to a brigade commander like you said.

 

[Two Eyed Jack]

I would simply say mounted infantry. I don't begin to share your high opinion of him, let alone think he deserves such a title. But, that's the beauty of this country: everyone is entitled to his or her opinion and to state it, even if it is wrong. ;-)

I think we can at least agree on that.

Respectfully,
Two Eyed Jack

 

[Reb]

I understand your point, but I don't view it as a valid comparison. If you want to compare Forrest to Sheridan--corps commander vs. corps commander--that would be a valid comparison. Comparing a brigade commander to a corps commander is not a valid comparison. It's like comparing a Cessna to an F-16.

Forrest was the F-16. Custer crashed and burned as a Cessna.

 

[cash]

If I may sneak in here and say I don't think Cash meant that at all. I think (and correct me if I'm wrong, Cash) he meant that someone like Forrest would have a lot of catching up to do, and that would have been extremely difficult.

Our fathers are very similar. Mine left school at 16, WWII, blue collar, and did really hard crossword puzzles with a pen.

Absolutely right.

 

[cash]

By all means, welcome and you ain't gotta sneak around here, mam.

I'm basing my argument on post #189. Maybe I read it wrong. What's your take?

Is your dad still with us?

From Post #189:

I'm suggesting he was too far behind. He was further behind than Jackson, and Jackson was way behind. The mountain he would have to climb was just too high. He would be one of those who were so woefully unprepared that no amount of study and work could get him caught up.

 

[cash]

I don't! Well, you may have something there with the Hulk... I was simply saying an illiterate person who finally gets the opportunity to learn is gung-ho about it and will often surprise everybody. Not that Forrest was a genius.

I'm sure he would have jumped at it. The problem is that someone coming from his background, as poorly prepared as he was, just cannot keep up in college.

 

[Bee]

Forrest was the F-16. Custer crashed and burned as a Cessna.

He is comparing the designations of Corps Commander & Brigade Commander, not specific people. Never mind. Contrary as is, never mind the details.

 

[LoriAnn]

My dad passed 5 years ago this past April at the tender young age of 86. He was up and around until the day he lost his balance, fell and hit his head. He was gone 36 hours later. He was out from the time he hit his head until he died.

I am sorry he is gone and that you and his loved ones are missing him, but I am glad he didn't suffer long.

My dad falls frequently these days. I'm afraid this scenario is in my near future.

Hope your dad cleans out the casinos.

Ha, thank you. I think he's just happy to have a machine in front of him and a wine in his hand.

 

[cash]

Thank you, Sir.

Okay, I went back and reread that post.

I see where you're coming from here and agree with you...

I would never make that assumption about anyone. Based on Cash's response in post #223, it seems he didn't mean for his reply to come off that way either (but I shall shut up and let him speak for himself). Perhaps this is a miscommunication. (I can't tell you how many times I've had to delete and rewrite a reply out of fear I didn't express myself correctly. I'd make a horrible public speaker. Not kidding ~ this would be me.)

My dad is 89, and though his health is failing, he is still with us. ♥ According to a recent status update on Facebook, he is currently winning in a casino in Vegas.

Has your father passed? If so, please accept my condolences. How lucky we were to have that generation.

You understand my position perfectly.

 

[Reb]

He is comparing the designations of Corps Commander & Brigade Commander, not specific people. Never mind. Contrary as is, never mind the details.

Thanks for your input.

 

[diane]

I'm sure he would have jumped at it. The problem is that someone coming from his background, as poorly prepared as he was, just cannot keep up in college.

I think we'll have to agree to disagree here! Forrest's family wasn't uneducated - his wife had a very good education - so he had a good support system, much better than Jackson's. If Jackson hadn't had a rare perseverance and a photographic memory, he wouldn't have made it either. Forrest didn't appreciate education until he got into the war, and was in his 40s, and at that point you're quite right - he couldn't have considered college. At 17, the average age for West Point, he simply wasn't interested and would have turned it down! Or not... He did join a dragoon's outfit to go to Texas for the war (and a large chunk of promised land) at age 20. Maybe a soldier's life would have appealed to him and he would have been a cavalryman anyway...! Ok, I'll stop chasing my tail.