Custer Forrest or Custer

[cash]

Gentlemen, it doesn't matter where anybody was born except Forrest and Custer. Did his immigrant parents have an influence on the general he became? Quite possibly. Did Forrest's being born in a log cabin with the nearest neighbor 35 miles away have an influence on the general he became? Quite possibly.

"As such incidents suggest, Nathan Bedford Forrest was a product of the frontier. And this frontier heritage shaped his entire life. Characteristically, he was a man of action, prepared to defend his family and his interests, often through violent means. A crude code of honor informed his life." [Brian Steel Wills, A Battle From the Start: The Life of Nathan Bedford Forrest, p. 15]

 

[diane]

"As such incidents suggest, Nathan Bedford Forrest was a product of the frontier. And this frontier heritage shaped his entire life. Characteristically, he was a man of action, prepared to defend his family and his interests, often through violent means. A crude code of honor informed his life." [Brian Steel Wills, A Battle From the Start: The Life of Nathan Bedford Forrest, p. 15]

That bio does a good job of examining why Forrest was Forrest - Wills bases much of it in light of the old Southern code of honor. Forrest said his life was a battle from the start, and it was.

 

[7th Mississippi Infantry]

"As such incidents suggest, Nathan Bedford Forrest was a product of the frontier. And this frontier heritage shaped his entire life. Characteristically, he was a man of action, prepared to defend his family and his interests, often through violent means. A crude code of honor informed his life." [Brian Steel Wills, A Battle From the Start: The Life of Nathan Bedford Forrest, p. 15]

Absolutely !

There's not no doubt that growing up on the wild Tennessee frontier influenced Forrest's actions throughout his lifetime.

Forrest came from an entirely different universe than Custer.

Regarding General Custer's early life:

Born in Harrison County, Ohio on December 5, 1839, son of Emanuel and Marie, Custer was nicknamed "Autie" because of his mispronunciation of his middle name as a small child. George had four younger siblings, Thomas, Margaret, Nevin, and Boston, as well as several older half-siblings from his mother's first marriage to Israel Kirkpatrick, who died in 1835.

During much of his boyhood George lived with his half-sister and brother-in-law in Monroe, Michigan, where he attended McNeely Norman School, carrying coal with a classmate in order to pay for room and board. Upon graduation, he taught school for two years before being admitted to the U.S. Military Academy, where he graduated in 1861, ranked last in his class of 34 cadets. Ever a trickster, multiple demerits for pulling practical jokes on his classmates brought him close to expulsion several times.

Entire article at:
http://www.civilwar.org/education/history/biographies/george-armstrong-custer-1.html

 

[Two Eyed Jack]

Therein may lie the problem: how one reacts to a situation in progress

We have plenty of empirical data on how Forrest reacted and I think this sums it up nicely: During a skirmish at Parker's Crossroads on New Year's Eve, Forrest and his men were totally surprised when a Union force suddenly appeared in their rear and threatened to surround them. "Charge 'em both ways," Forrest famously ordered.

 

[Reb]

Gentlemen, it doesn't matter where anybody was born except Forrest and Custer. Did his immigrant parents have an influence on the general he became? Quite possibly. Did Forrest's being born in a log cabin with the nearest neighbor 35 miles away have an influence on the general he became? Quite possibly.

Shelbyville Tennessee was laid out in 1810. My ggg grandfather was there on Flat Creek in 1810. The town proper was founded in 1819. Forrest was born in 1821, 19 miles away. Explain please how his nearest neighbors were 35 miles away.

 

[diane]

It's interesting to continue the comparison. Custer had a career after the CW, which Forrest did not, and he became an intriguing symbol in American culture, folklore as well as history. They Died With Their Boots On, where Errol Flynn portrayed him as a fun loving, gallant and popular officer who did just what the title of the movie suggests in a heroic manner only Errol Flynn could manage! And then, there's another version, Little Big Man. This movie depicts Custer as a total madman, played by Richard Mulligan to the hilt. Every time Dustin Hoffman encounters him, he's crazier than the last time. Here's a scene from that movie depicting Sheridan's 1868 winter campaign against the Cheyenne:

P S
Found it! Here's the Errol Flynn depiction of Custer at the Little Bighorn:

 

[diane]

Shelbyville Tennessee was laid out in 1810. My ggg grandfather was there on Flat Creek in 1810. The town proper was founded in 1819. Forrest was born in 1821, 19 miles away. Explain please how his nearest neighbors were 35 miles away.

 

[Bee]

Little Big Man. This movie depicts Custer as a total madman, played by Richard Mulligan to the hilt. Every time Dustin Hoffman encounters him, he's crazier than the last time. Here's a scene from that movie depicting Sheridan's 1868 winter campaign against the Cheyenne:

I think every Rez in this country has a "Little Big Man" movie night! A true classic

 

[matthew mckeon]

I'm trying to think of another product of the frontier, with very little formal schooling, but, somehow, did very well in life in a legal career and politics, even through, apparently he couldn't have cut it in college because of his background...he's in the Civil War era, I vaguely remember....Babraham Binkcon?....no, that's not right...

 

[matthew mckeon]

I think every Rez in this country has a "Little Big Man" movie night! A true classic

I often show parts of that movie to my history class. The winter attack is an utterly brutal scene. The actress playing Little Big Man's Cheyenne wife, Sunshine was Vietnamese, which was a little too on the nose for a revisionist Western made in 1970.

Sorry for the thread hijack, returning to NBF, college boy.

 

[cash]

I'm trying to think of another product of the frontier, with very little formal schooling, but, somehow, did very well in life in a legal career and politics, even through, apparently he couldn't have cut it in college because of his background...he's in the Civil War era, I vaguely remember....Babraham Binkcon?....no, that's not right...

Lincoln spent all his free time with books. Not the same as Forrest.

 

[diane]

I'm trying to think of another product of the frontier, with very little formal schooling, but, somehow, did very well in life in a legal career and politics, even through, apparently he couldn't have cut it in college because of his background...he's in the Civil War era, I vaguely remember....Babraham Binkcon?....no, that's not right...

He'd never made it in college! Probably around your 40s in those days it was indeed too late but today it sure isn't. I used to tutor illiterate people and once they start learning it's as if a whole new universe opened up before them - they are very greedy to learn everything once they can read! Susie was at least in her 90s, possibly over 100, and I'll never forget how proud she was to be able to finally write her own name herself.

 

[matthew mckeon]

Lincoln spent all his free time with books. Not the same as Forrest.

Cash, its possible that dogmatic statements about how somehow might have performed in college are not really provable, or disprovable. Maybe Binkcon would have been bounced for an illtimed practical joke or jape. Maybe Borrest would have had a talented tutor. Maybe, maybe, maybe. It didn't happen, so it seems like a unresolvable discussion.

 

[Bee]

I'm trying to think of another product of the frontier, with very little formal schooling, but, somehow, did very well in life in a legal career and politics, even through, apparently he couldn't have cut it in college because of his background...he's in the Civil War era, I vaguely remember....Babraham Binkcon?....no, that's not right...

You're killing me..

I saw many cases in early life of folks who came from dirt floors to succeed (one from the rez became a submariner with a physics degree thanks to Uncle Sam) and I saw folks with the exact same potential, but just could not escape self-sabotage (the answer to everything was a quick punch) It is definitely a case-by-case scenario of who makes it and who does not.

 

[diane]

I often show parts of that movie to my history class. The winter attack is an utterly brutal scene. The actress playing Little Big Man's Cheyenne wife, Sunshine was Vietnamese, which was a little too on the nose for a revisionist Western made in 1970.

Sorry for the thread hijack, returning to NBF, college boy.

At that time all military men were depicted as crazy, but what I always saw in that scene was the perfect despair in Hoffman's eyes as he watched the 7th Cavalry coming in like the riders of Mordor. Nowhere to go and not a thing could be done about it!

 

[cash]

Cash, its possible that dogmatic statements about how somehow might have performed in college are not really provable, or disprovable. Maybe Binkcon would have been bounced for an illtimed practical joke or jape. Maybe Borrest would have had a talented tutor. Maybe, maybe, maybe. It didn't happen, so it seems like a unresolvable discussion.

Just look at Forrest as he was. He had less than a rudimentary education, even less than Jackson had, and didn't spend his time learning things on his own. Place someone like that in a college setting and it's a recipe for failure. I don't believe they had tutors at West Point at the time.

 

[diane]

Just look at Forrest as he was. He had less than a rudimentary education, even less than Jackson had, and didn't spend his time learning things on his own. Place someone like that in a college setting and it's a recipe for failure. I don't believe they had tutors at West Point at the time.

Gosh, Cash, don't you think that horse you're beating is getting a little ripe?

 

[cash]

Gosh, Cash, don't you think that horse you're beating is getting a little ripe?

I was responding to someone else's comments. Had someone else not commented to me, I wouldn't have taken another stick to that horse.

 

[cash]

By the way, Custer's performance with the Army of the Potomac was, I believe, better than James Harrison Wilson's performance. Guess who beat Forrest like a drum?

 

[diane]

I was responding to someone else's comments. Had someone else not commented to me, I wouldn't have taken another stick to that horse.

What's your take on the legend of Custer? I don't think it's off topic since the OP is actually open-ended.