Custer Forrest or Custer

Forrest or Custer

  • Custer

    Votes: 9 9.2%
  • Forrest

    Votes: 89 90.8%

  • Total voters
    98
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Engineering is heavy on calculus and science, which is more advanced than trig. He would also have to learn a foreign language, as well as constitutional principles.

I ain't had no edjimmication neither but I know where the sun rises and where it sets! Never underestimate the sponge. An uneducated person can tackle education with a gusto that would floor you. :wub:
 
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Oh, I'm not leaving the camp! Should clarify, though. Cash makes a good point about Forrest operating as mounted infantry but I can't get around his clear usefulness as traditional cavalry or not consider him a cavalryman. He was the first to really use a strike force - his escort was remarkable and unlike any other escort - and he did scout, screen and reconnoiter as he was supposed to. His superiors often did not value him and often ignored him so...he often went off on his own hook. The biggest flaw in his soldiering was that he had not gotten the training that would teach him to suffer fools gladly...which he did not! The Union cavalry was undergoing some significant changes, though, and was more ready (and able) to change for the better than the Confederate, who maintained tradition, the cavalier style. Jeb Stuart was absolutely swords n roses all the way and he was very, very good. It was still a glorious occupation. Forrest was unique in his practical got-a-job-to-do approach. He saw nothing romantic about war, just a bad job someone had to do - and he was superb at it. Not superb at taking orders from dummies, though!

One thing I haven't seen noted about Custer is what he represented - the post-Civil War US cavalry. The war had really cleaned out stodgy old timers, moss-backed traditionalists and timid commanders - that made room for men like Grant to come forward and they were young. Grant doesn't get enough credit for letting his commanders think outside the box as well as himself. Sheridan, for example - Grant let him have his head many times, maybe from favoritism but also to see what he had in mind. You think you can do it, then go for it! Technology made huge changes, and so on. The heyday of the US cavalry was the Plains Wars but the last US cavalry charge - with horses - was in the Philippines during WWII.
Diane - That is an excellent summary about Forrest ! He was a brilliant Cavalry Commander throughout the war and he could handle his sabre in either hands which was remarkable.
The last British Cavalry charge was carried out on March 19th 1942 when Maj.A.G.Sandeman led 60 Men ( mainly Sikhs & Punjabi Mussulmen ) against Japanese positions at Toungoo, Burma. Maj. Sandeman went to my old school, Haileybury & Imperial Service College !
 
Diane - That is an excellent summary about Forrest ! He was a brilliant Cavalry Commander throughout the war and he could handle his sabre in either hands which was remarkable.
The last British Cavalry charge was carried out on March 19th 1942 when Maj.A.G.Sandeman led 60 Men ( mainly Sikhs & Punjabi Mussulmen ) against Japanese positions at Toungoo, Burma. Maj. Sandeman went to my old school, Haileybury & Imperial Service College !

That is very neat! Here's the Fifth Army Provisional Mounted Reconnaissance Troop, Italy, 1943:

army-horses-mules_lastcav_02_700.jpg


There was a film some years ago about the decommissioning of the horse cavalry - quite good but low on fact. In Pursuit of Honor with Don Johnson. The real story, though, can be found on this site:

http://olive-drab.com/od_army-horses-mules_lastcav.php
 
I ain't had no edjimmication neither but I know where the sun rises and where it sets! Never underestimate the sponge. An uneducated person can tackle education with a gusto that would floor you. :wub:

I'm an electrical engineer in nuclear power for ~30 years and I learned a lot more after I got out of school than I did in school and a lot of it was from rough, journeymen electricians with no college education. I knew the theory but they knew implementation and I soaked it up like a sponge.
:smug:
 
From the above link:
"As we rushed them the white warriors dismounted to fire, but they did very poor shooting,"

It would appear from an eyewitness account that Custer was (((drum roll))) mounted infantry!

I guess some don't understand "performing roles."
 
That's the very fella, Two Eyed Jack, Bedford Buford. Won that famous battle at Gettysburg Crossroads. He'll do for me!
Micky.

I was confused and probably still am. In your post you said 'of the two' which I assumed meant Forrest or Custer since this a thread comparing those two. Now, I'm still confused as to why you called him Bedford Buford. Maybe I'll need a wee dram to clear up the confusion but it is a bit early for me.
 
Are you suggesting that Forrest was too dumb to learn?

I'm suggesting he was too far behind. He was further behind than Jackson, and Jackson was way behind. The mountain he would have to climb was just too high. He would be one of those who were so woefully unprepared that no amount of study and work could get him caught up.


Your bias is starting to wander into wild speculation and expose a bit of snobbishness. Yes, Forrest was rough and lacked formal education but, based on his accomplishments, you have to cross a mighty rickety and narrow bridge to imply that he could not have competed intellectually with his contemporaries at West Point had he been given the same childhood opportunities that they had.

If he had been given the same opportunities he wouldn't be the same person. You may as well presume that if Forrest went to the finest prep schools in the country beforehand, he would have done well at West Point. Duh. Idiotic. Put Forrest the way he was as a young man in West Point and he flunks out or is thrown out due to behavior.
 
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I guess some don't understand "performing roles."

Let me get this straight: when Custer's men dismounted to fire they are calvary "performing roles". But, when Forrest's men dismounted to fire they are mounted infantry and, therefore, when Forrest's men fought engagements mounted they were "performing roles".

Edited by Chellers.
 
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I ain't had no edjimmication neither but I know where the sun rises and where it sets! Never underestimate the sponge. An uneducated person can tackle education with a gusto that would floor you. :wub:

Thousands of poorly prepared students flunk out of colleges and universities every year.

Guess what? Forrest didn't have a big "S" on his chest. He was more poorly prepared for a college environment, especially the West Point environment, than anyone would have been, including Jackson.

Some folks here think Forrest was a combination Einstein/Batman/Superman/Flash/Perry Mason/Incredible Hulk/Patton/Lee/Washington/Napoleon. He wasn't.
 
Let me get this straight: when Custer's men dismounted to fire they are calvary "performing roles". But, when Forrest's men dismounted to fire they are mounted infantry and, therefore, when Forrest's men fought engagements mounted they were "performing roles".

Nice try but you can't 'cash' that check here.

There's a difference between cavalry fighting dismounted, which they often did, and performing cavalry roles. Two different concepts.
 
Thousands of poorly prepared students flunk out of colleges and universities every year.

Guess what? Forrest didn't have a big "S" on his chest. He was more poorly prepared for a college environment, especially the West Point environment, than anyone would have been, including Jackson.

Some folks here think Forrest was a combination Einstein/Batman/Superman/Flash/Perry Mason/Incredible Hulk/Patton/Lee/Washington/Napoleon. He wasn't.

You're making assumptions based on bias that you can't validate. It would be better if you were to preface your statements with something like, 'in my biased opinion'.

Also, you keep suggesting that Forrest is 'worshipped'. Speaking strictly for myself, I dismiss that with the sad shake of the head that it deserves. I respect Forrest for his accomplishments during his service to the Confederacy, his audacity, his bravery, his tactical genius, but I worship no man, past, present or future.
 
Guys, let's leave the race stuff out of this thread, shall we please? We've already had to shut down one thread in this forum for that and this one doesn't need to be the next! Thank you.

I didn't mean to upset the apply cart and will gladly take the post down if requested to do so, however, I believe that the analogy is appropriate.
 
There's a difference between cavalry fighting dismounted, which they often did, and performing cavalry roles. Two different concepts.

Perhaps Forrest's knowing what he needed to be when he needed to be it is precisely why he was so successful and earned the scorn and fear of his enemies. But, you can't deny that his unit was called Forrest Cavalry Corps.
 
There's a difference between cavalry fighting dismounted, which they often did, and performing cavalry roles. Two different concepts.

John Buford on the first day of Gettysburg would be an example of this?
 
You're making assumptions based on bias that you can't validate. It would be better if you were to preface your statements with something like, 'in my biased opinion'.

Also, you keep suggesting that Forrest is 'worshipped'. Speaking strictly for myself, I dismiss that with the sad shake of the head that it deserves. I respect Forrest for his accomplishments during his service to the Confederacy, his audacity, his bravery, his tactical genius, but I worship no man, past, present or future.

Says the guy who claimed if Forrest went to West Point he'd have a better GPA than Custer.

See to your own biased assumptions before you claim others have them.
 
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