Why Do We Use Middle Names, Middle Initials, or None At All?

[JeffBrooks]

We ALWAYS say John Bell Hood and Nathan Bedford Forrest. No one has ever called them John Hood or Nathan Forrest. Similarly, we ALWAYS say Robert E. Lee. No one ever says Robert Lee and only rarely do we say Robert Edward Lee. We ALWAYS say Ulysses S. Grant, rather than just Ulysses Grant. On the other hand, James Longstreet is always just good old James Longstreet. Ditto Joseph Johnston and George Thomas.

Why?

 

[Nolan]

Great points. Have kind of wondered this myself. Kind of makes me think of assassins being identified by three names: John Wilkes Booth, Lee Harvey Oswald, etc.

 

[diane]

We ALWAYS say John Bell Hood and Nathan Bedford Forrest. No one has ever called them John Hood or Nathan Forrest. Similarly, we ALWAYS say Robert E. Lee. No one ever says Robert Lee and only rarely do we say Robert Edward Lee. We ALWAYS say Ulysses S. Grant, rather than just Ulysses Grant. On the other hand, James Longstreet is always just good old James Longstreet. Ditto Joseph Johnston and George Thomas.

Why?

Well, I don't know about the rest, but I do know about Forrest. He was named for his grandpa but called Bedford by folks outside the family, and called himself that, because his grandpa Nathan Forrest was still alive. Within the family, he was Nathan because a second set of twins were born - Isaac and Bedford. They died young, however.

 

[JerseyBart]

My name is Richard Barton White. Since I've been born, I've been called Bart.

 

[16thVA]

When I grew up in WV the middle name was important, I almost always heard my first two names yelled by the women in my family.

 

[Nathanb1]

When I grew up in WV the middle name was important, I almost always heard my first two names yelled by the women in my family.

I'm named for both my parents....so when I was in trouble, I always heard my entire name. Bad sign, that. Then I did it to my daughter, and we do it to my grandaughter. Oh, and my husband.

Don't forget Joshua Lawrence Chamberlain! Of course, there's J.E.B. Stuart. Apparently four names are too much. There is also John Mosby, John Buford, George Custer......lots of others with just two.....Judson Kilpatrick......

 

[huskerblitz]

Didn't the 'S' in Grant (and also Truman) actually mean nothing?

 

[Michael Condon]

I think it is what sticks. I am called Mike, Mikey or Michael (rarely) and other nicknames. What sounds the best and what do you go by? I go by Mike or Michael at work and most people. My best friends and family call me Mikey or Michael Wayne and solicitors would just call me Michael! haha! So think about it, back in the 1800's you would be known by the mass. Hence Mike Condon right?

 

[huskerblitz]

My ex-wife and I stuck to the family part of middle names, as long as they sounded good when said. My son shares my middle name, one daughter has my mother's middle name and our last daughter another family name: Thus you get Lincoln Edward, Abigail Anne and Carissa Lynn.

 

[Drew]

We ALWAYS say John Bell Hood and Nathan Bedford Forrest. No one has ever called them John Hood or Nathan Forrest. Similarly, we ALWAYS say Robert E. Lee. No one ever says Robert Lee and only rarely do we say Robert Edward Lee. We ALWAYS say Ulysses S. Grant, rather than just Ulysses Grant. On the other hand, James Longstreet is always just good old James Longstreet. Ditto Joseph Johnston and George Thomas.

Why?

Actually, I say Robert Lee all of the time, but that's just me. Here's a personal insight, just anecdotal. The men in my Southern family were always addressed and referred to by their first and middle names. Few escaped this. (I didn't, as a kid Down There). So, it makes perfect sense to me that we speak of John Bell, Nathan Bedford, etc. I don't know how Johnston escaped it (unless he hated his middle name to the point of violence) and it's probably a wee bit informal with respect to (Robert) Lee, from a Southern standpoint.

The Northern guys could get called whatever they wanted, but I'm thinking they got a pass from my great aunts. Maybe someone else has better insight.

 

[huskerblitz]

So just like Billy Bob, Johnny Ray, etc.?

 

[Drew]

So just like Billy Bob, Johnny Ray, etc.?

No, formal, full names. More like William Robert or John Raymond, in your example.

 

[roberts]

So just like Billy Bob, Johnny Ray, etc.?

Billy Joe, James Earl, Jimmy Lee, etc are compound names which were popular in the 20th century South. In the 19th there were some conventions that produced some of the formats....for example namesakes often used the first and middle to distinguish from their ancestor. This was true of Forrest and Bell and others. William Tecumseh Sherman utilized the full name to avoid confusion with a Shawnee who practiced a scorched earth policy. ;-)

Initials were popular with some for the word economy they offer...i.e. James Ewell Brown (JEB) Stuart, Cadwallader Colden Washburn (CC), or Lucius Quintus Cincinnatus Lamar (LQC), Pierre Gustave Toutant-Beauregard (GT)

Later those who wanted to use their middle name paired with the first initial to indicate a preference for the middle name; C. Everett Koop, H. Norman Schwarzkopf, J. Edgar Hoover, F. Scott Fitzgerald, etc.... this was in the English style.

Most of the 19th century guys liked to sign with their initials as in N.B. Forrest, W. T. Sherman, R. E. Lee, etc.

 

[Drew]

Most of the 19th century guys liked to sign with their initials as in N.B. Forrest, W. T. Sherman, R. E. Lee, etc.

Absolutely - that bled into the early 20th century as well, particularly in the South. Everyone was identified in writing by initials plus surname. That didn't get any of them out from under what their aunts called them, however....

 

[JPK Huson 1863]

OH my gosh Diane, WHERE do you keep all this? We've already established you and Nate are nice, petite ladies- there's not even a large head for you people to stuff all the information. I'm a d*m horse and.... . Never mind.

Think assasins were named like that in the press to ensure the Lee Oswald who was principal at your child's school at the Eddie Booth who shoed your horse were not shot? You know, they'd have the Lee FRED and Edward Henry to fall back on, the crowd got nasty.

What Nate said- only we got the entire name- all three- then hid under the bed because that was IT, boy, there was trouble. Our middle names were all, always family names, too- mostly surnames, sometimes first names. Mine is ' Keep', for instance- grandmother's maiden name-so maybe using all 3 in speaking of someone would be another way of identifying that person? Not that I KNOW anything, am guessing based on the tradition of naming children for family- you'd have some idea of where that person came from?

I like the formality which remained longer in the South. Also the ' Miss' tended to be used before names. Kind of nice.

 

[JPK Huson 1863]

Just was musing- one, more thing it would be a GREAT idea to have a way to shoot all to heck. It goes with this despicable Hollywood money-making thing they've done to the South- and yes, I know I'm repeating myself. That ' Bobby-Dee, Johny-Bob- Susie-dee, whatever thing- it's HOLLYWOOD making money from ' Redneck, hick, no-teeth, barefoot, offensive sterotyping. It's awful- it's what Honey Boo Boo is really about, someone to laugh at and feel better than, look down one's nose at, right? So the entire US pegs THAT as ' Southern '. For money!

Honey's mother is a heck of a woman, honest, hard, hard working, thrifty ( buys used cars, refuses to move, banks all her children's money ), pleasant as the day is long. I heard she drives the producers a little crazy because she refuses to fight with anyone, won't create the drama they want for the show. No other images of Richmond, Charleston, centuries of deep History and culture, however- the fact that you may as well shut half of it to commerce, turn it into an Historic monument, nooooo, can't show that!

Scuse small rant- the torqueing of the 3 full names, or even 2 into what's currently thought of as ' Southern' makes me a little crazy.

 

[unionblue]

The three names we are given are great tools for child-rearing.

Whenever my mother or sister or father called for me with my first name of "Neil," things were right with the world, no trouble was within view, and I could without fear go and see what they wanted.

Whenever any of the family said, "Neil Hamilton," things had gotten a bit strained, I might have to think of an excuse to give for something I had not done or remembered to do, but it was usually a minor problem with no deep impact upon me or my world. If a teacher at school did the same using my first and last name, he was usually calling on me in class to answer a question or to read a paragraph from a book. Again, no big deal.

BUT...

Whenever I hear my mother call in a loud, angry voice, "NEIL RAYMOND!" things had truly hit the fan and it was best to run and hide. The ONLY time I ever heard my middle name ever used was in this vein and ONLY by my mother. I still get shivers thinking about it.

I did think, when I was very young, that being called 'Ray' by my friends would be sort of cool, but it never came about. I was always called "Neil Armstrong" after the famous landing on the moon in 1969. Good thing I graduated high school in 1971 and enlisted in the Army that 30th of July.

Then I was called, "Hamilton," or "Private."

BUT...

If I got into any serious scrape, foul-up or trouble, it was, "HAMILTON! GET YOUR A## OVER HERE AND DROP AND GIVE ME TWENTY!"

Yep, three names can be a very powerful tool.

Sincerely,
Unionblue

 

[TinCan]

My twin brother and I are named Michael and Jerry. My grandmother had a fit, she told my mother, "twins should have names that rhyme", so to keep the peace, my brother became, Michael Lynn, and I became, Jerry Glen. And funny to note, I still prefer to sign my name J.G.

 

[TinCan]

One more thing, my mother is 86 and when my brother and I are with her (which is not very often) she still, after 65 years will holler out, "Michael, Jerry, whichever one you are, come over here"!

 

[kholland]

I'm named for both my parents....so when I was in trouble, I always heard my entire name. Bad sign, that. Then I did it to my daughter, and we do it to my grandaughter. Oh, and my husband.

Don't forget Joshua Lawrence Chamberlain! Of course, there's J.E.B. Stuart. Apparently four names are too much. There is also John Mosby, John Buford, George Custer......lots of others with just two.....Judson Kilpatrick......

And my all time favorite Civil War name- Pierre Gustave Toutant- Beauregard. Four names we're not a problem for him. For others just P.G.T.