HF Westerns

[TallTallMan]

It's editing, the sound affects are added after the action shots are taken, blanks are used while filming. Some of the western movie actors were actually cowboys, Slim Pickens was a rodeo clown and remained active even after getting big parts. Ben Johnson was the real deal. While working as an extra and a horse handler on the set of Stagecoach a horse team pulling the stage spooked and took off with some of the cast in it, Ben jumped on a horse and rode the team down, John Ford was so impressed he signed him to a movie deal, he worked for Ford for years but he detested swearing, years later when Ford offered him a part that required him to swear in front of a female cast member Ben refused and Ford fired him, Ben went back to rodeoing and won Cowboy of the Year!
One of the funniest bits of trivia concerns Jack Palance's appearance in Shane;
Check it out; Jack had never ridden a horse and it shows,

Shane's greatest quality is its editing. I don't like much else about it. The novel is far superior.

 

[TallTallMan]

YES!!!!!!!!!!

I love John Wayne, but he like John Ford was a nitwit on the technical details of everything.

My folks were religious about him, but some movies like The Comancheros are a headache to watch! His worst offense was probably The Alamo.

He was trying to make a Cold War propaganda film, and went out of his way to demolish history for a message to audiences. Just like his mentor John Ford. That movie can be downright insulting. He only even filmed it in Texas because the State made it clear if he filmed it in Mexico as he wished, he better not expect it to screen here. According to some sources. Supposedly he had some political ambitions if it was a big enough hit, and he wanted it to be a campaign movie to show his positions. But at least the set was a great rendition.

But my folks took everything from him and such as true western history and anything else is a sad insult. My mother to this day refuses to watch the 2004 Alamo movie because as she's said, "It's just a remake of John Wayne's movies and they insult John Wayne and Texas!" Never mind John Wayne's work WAS the insult and the Alamo was a real event, not just a movie script.

Taking that nutcase mother of mine to see the real remake of a John Wayne movie, True Grit, was a headache.

If you think The Alamo's bad Cold War propaganda, have you ever seen JW's The Green Berets?

 

[TallTallMan]

The novel ending is only deceptively different. If you watch carefully you can see they are the same.

Before he shoots, he has dialog with Riker who tell's him "My argument is not wit you, Shane." Shane tells him that it is. He tells him "our time is over. The difference is I know it and you don't."

Thus, Shane's wound is fatal. He rides into the mountains to die, symbolizing the end of the gunfighter era. He can only temporarily conceal the wound from Joey. . . He might already be dead when Joey is calling him to come back.

Holy flaming buckskins I never noticed. I gotta go watch it again. Thanks!

I always find people who intepret something new about that ethereal story. I noticed in the movie he says "You can't live with a killing" (backstory HINT HINT HINT HINT HINT). My dad noticed that the wife likes him TOO much in both film and book, and I missed both, dumb-A I am.

Have you ever seen Pale Rider, Shane's remake? He disappears into the snow. I guess he was the Ghost of Christmas Awesome.

 

[TallTallMan]

@Desert Kid You know your cue.

 

[Philip Leigh]

Holy flaming buckskins I never noticed. I gotta go watch it again. Thanks!

I always find people who intepret something new about that ethereal story. I noticed in the movie he says "You can't live with a killing" (backstory HINT HINT HINT HINT HINT). My dad noticed that the wife likes him TOO much in both film and book, and I missed both, dumb-A I am.

Oh, yes. There's a physical attraction between Shane and Marian that both have to fight off. By beating Joe in a fistfight Shane is also blocking Marian from the sin of adultery.

Have you ever seen Pale Rider, Shane's remake? He disappears into the snow. I guess he was the Ghost of Christmas Awesome.

I have not seen Pale Rider, but the symbolism you cite seems quite similar. Does the Pale Rider have a love interest that must be supressed?

 

[Booklady]

The two men sitting on the stools at the Wild West Show were Frank James (Jesse's brother) and Cole Younger. Both were on the 1876 Northfield, Minnesota bank raid in which bank clerk Tom Heywood was killed. Younger was convicted for it but Mattie, and others, believed that Frank James did it.

Mattie arrived at the Wild West Show because Rooster had sent her an invitation. He knew he was dying. When she approached the two old men, Cole Younger stood up, took his hat off, and explained that Rooster had died three days earlier when the show was at another town. He finished by saying, "We had some lively times," thereby implying that Rooster had some history as an outlaw. Frank James remained seated with his hat on and said nothing.

When she departed she thanked Cole for sharing the information and remarked to Frank, "Keep your seat, trash."

No, I understood that, and liked that ending better than the ending to the original TG.

My confusion is with the ending to The Shootist.



Spoiler alert ………..





I feel like Books sets up the final meeting in the saloon as a way to die, avoiding the painful death in store for him, and yet he's a better gunman than the other three, so he doesn't die by their hands. If it weren't for the bartender, he would survive. And then die from cancer. So what is the point of setting up the bar encounter? Just to settle old feuds?

 

[Philip Leigh]

Great ending with Mattie staying in character.

Right. She always struck a hard bargain with the men she did business with. The best example was the livery owner in Fort Smith who sold the mustang ponies to her dad.

 

[Booklady]

Right. She always struck a hard bargain with the men she did business with. The best example was the livery owner in Fort Smith who sold the mustang ponies to her dad.

Love that scene—in both versions.

 

[damYankee]

Oh, yes. There's a physical attraction between Shane and Marian that both have to fight off. By beating Joe in a fistfight Shane is also blocking Marian from the sin of adultery.


I have not seen Pale Rider, but the symbolism you cite seems quite similar. Does the Pale Rider have a love interest that must be supressed?

The teenage girl has the hots for Clint. So yeah.., She prayed for a protector to come and the Preacher appears,

 

[damYankee]

Didn't they just run the film backwards of Jack Palance mounting and dismounting in Shane? For those who like the pre-westerns Clark Gable's "Across the Wide Missouri" and Charleton Heston's "Mountain Men" should fill the bill. Heston also made another very good movie called "Will Penny". All the movies listed above should make anyone's top 20 list, they did mine.

Will Penny is one of my favs. The YouTube clip I posted verifies that yes, they just ran the film backwards to show Palance remounting his horse, watch him ride away, it's clear he didn't know how to handle a horse yet.

 

[Desert Kid]

YES!!!!!!!!!!

I love John Wayne, but he like John Ford was a nitwit on the technical details of everything.

My folks were religious about him, but some movies like The Comancheros are a headache to watch! His worst offense was probably The Alamo.

He was trying to make a Cold War propaganda film, and went out of his way to demolish history for a message to audiences. Just like his mentor John Ford. That movie can be downright insulting. He only even filmed it in Texas because the State made it clear if he filmed it in Mexico as he wished, he better not expect it to screen here. According to some sources. Supposedly he had some political ambitions if it was a big enough hit, and he wanted it to be a campaign movie to show his positions. But at least the set was a great rendition.

But my folks took everything from him and such as true western history and anything else is a sad insult. My mother to this day refuses to watch the 2004 Alamo movie because as she's said, "It's just a remake of John Wayne's movies and they insult John Wayne and Texas!" Never mind John Wayne's work WAS the insult and the Alamo was a real event, not just a movie script.

Taking that nutcase mother of mine to see the real remake of a John Wayne movie, True Grit, was a headache.

Oh GAWD yes!

My grandparents worshiped the ground John Wayne walked on. Whether it was Red River, True Grit, Rooster Cogburn, The Cowboys, The Sands of Iwo Jima, and yes The Alamo.

Sorry not sorry, Dennis Quaid and Billy Bob Thornton did it better.

 

[Philip Leigh]

Love that scene—in both versions.

Right, and here's my favorite dialogue:

LaBoeuf: A little earlier I gave some thought to stealin' a kiss from you, although you are very young... and you're unattractive to boot. But now I'm of a mind to give you five or six good licks with my belt.

Mattie: One would be about as unpleasant as the other.

 

[Booklady]

Right, and here's my favorite dialogue:

LaBoeuf: A little earlier I gave some thought to stealin' a kiss from you, although you are very young... and you're unattractive to boot. But now I'm of a mind to give you five or six good licks with my belt.

Mattie: One would be about as unpleasant as the other.

I was going to say that too!

 

[Philip Leigh]

I've long wanted to read the novel. I've seen about 400+ Westerns but have only read Shane.

The Man Who Shot Liberty Valence is almost the same plot as Shane. Tom Doniphon realizes his era of the West is almost over. He forfeits his love interest to Ranse as his contribution to civilization.

 

[TallTallMan]

Oh, yes. There's a physical attraction between Shane and Marian that both have to fight off. By beating Joe in a fistfight Shane is also blocking Marian from the sin of adultery.


I have not seen Pale Rider, but the symbolism you cite seems quite similar. Does the Pale Rider have a love interest that must be supressed?

I think Marian ogles him out in the rain at some point.

Pale Rider is a 1985 hit produced directed by and starring Clint Eastwood, which is a remake of Shane without directly being so.

I like it better than the movie Shane because its must more mysterious and looks more authentic.

 

[TallTallMan]

The Man Who Shot Liberty Valence is almost the same plot as Shane. Tom Doniphon realizes his era of the West is almost over. He forfeits his love interest to Ranse as his contribution to civilization.

That is a heckuva movie. I love every minute of it.

The irony of "Nobody fights my battles!" is classic.

 

[TallTallMan]

Oh GAWD yes!

My grandparents worshiped the ground John Wayne walked on. Whether it was Red River, True Grit, Rooster Cogburn, The Cowboys, The Sands of Iwo Jima, and yes The Alamo.

Sorry not sorry, Dennis Quaid and Billy Bob Thornton did it better.

I love Duke and his films. His Manifest Destiny politics were eccentric, to say the least, but I couldn't care less about anybody's politics as long as I love what they do.

The fact that he played The Shootist is miraculous for someone so obsessed with his personal image/ego, since it is everything he isn't. He's subtle, and undergoes humiliation (Bacall helping him out of the bathtub; Stewart asking him to "bend over", etc...). He gave one of the greatest film portrayals in history.

 

[TallTallMan]

I feel like bringing up the Hawks Trilogy, since nobody else has.

I love Rio Bravo, except Nelson is such a bad actor its scary. And he's a prettyboy, so he's outclassed by Duke and Dino's super-manliness.

I always enjoy El Dorado, mainly because James Caan is so funny. The villain McCleod is really likable. I almost wish that he would've won, just because he's such a rad dude.

Rio Lobo's just fun, and nothing else.

 

[Booklady]

I saw Liberty Valence years ago. I want to watch it again. Will have to find it .

 

[carptrash]

He was trying to make a Cold War propaganda film, and went out of his way to demolish history for a message to audiences.

Speaking of Cold War propaganda, I recently picked up (thrift store) a copy of Wayne's "Green Berets", which I have not seen since my 12 inch B/w TV days, and find I am in no rush now.