Chickamauga Was Chickamauga a Union victory?

[Horace Porter]

It's a simple question, inspired by the passionate arguments of several people who admire (and may even adore) William S. Rosecrans.

 

[nitrofd]

They all say that the union forces were outnumbered at chickamauga which according to the actual was the case but the number of rifles that were effective were pretty darn even in numbers.the biggest difference was in mounted forces and the CSA in this battle were not that much involved which tends to balance out the numbers of effectives fighting.

 

[nitrofd]

Capt.James R.Carnahan who was with the 86th Ind.Vol.Inf. wrote a paper on the battle of which he presented it to "The Ohio Commander of the Military Order of The Loyal Legion of the United States.". It is titled " Personal Recollections of Chickamauga". Which is available as a free download since it was published in 1886.
"here is is quote" "But a defeat it was not........and had this battle been fought at Chattanooga instead of Chickamauga ,Chattanooga would have been lost to us...and would have been a reversal of Vicksburg."

 

[David Moore]

It's a simple question, inspired by the passionate arguments of several people who admire (and may even adore) William S. Rosecrans.

Unless new info preferably from original sources is posted I fear this thread will end in another impasse based on secondary sources. I might post some of the documents I've come upon in my research in a new thread.

 

[David Moore]

Capt.James R.Carnahan who was with the 86th Ind.Vol.Inf. wrote a paper on the battle of which he presented it to "The Ohio Commander of the Military Order of The Loyal Legion of the United States.". It is titled " Personal Recollections of Chickamauga". Which is available as a free download since it was published in 1886.
"here is is quote" "But a defeat it was not........and had this battle been fought at Chattanooga instead of Chickamauga ,Chattanooga would have been lost to us...and would have been a reversal of Vicksburg."

Perhaps instead of people only posting their opinions it would be good to post links to available sources about the topic of this thread.

 

[nitrofd]

Perhaps instead of people only posting their opinions it would be good to post links to available sources about the topic of this thread.

I have it on my tablet,so I can'post that link but I put the title and if you are as good as you imply you will find it on Amazon.the only hands I hold are my grandkids and they are all grown up.

 

[David Moore]

I have it on my tablet,so I can'post that link but I put the title and if you are as good as you imply you will find it on Amazon.the only hands I hold are my grandkids and they are all grown up.

I'm quite aware of that article. I applaud what you did. I was suggesting others post links to articles.

 

[David Moore]

Here is a negative assessment of Chickamauga by Smith Adkins. He felt it was an unnecessary battle and Rosecrans should have concentrated into Chattanooga after Sept 9, 1863. He feels control of Chattanooga could have been maintained by the Union army. That of course is another topic that could be discussed. https://archive.org/details/chickamaugausele00atki

 

[DanSBHawk]

Here is another negative assessment of the claims put forth by Rosecrans and Boynton, written in 1911:

https://books.google.com/books?id=A...JAhVGOCYKHbmOCsIQ6AEIHDAA#v=onepage&q&f=false

 

[NedBaldwin]

Immediately after the battle Rosecrans wrote "We have met with a serious disaster" and "Enemy overwhelmed us, drove our right, pierced our centre, and scattered them." When the commander of one side in a battle says this, the answer seems clear.

 

[texaswildcat]

It's all a matter of perception. To me, it was a victory in 3 ways, the Army of the Cumberland managed to reach Chattanooga and weren't pursued by Bragg. In this state they were broken and Bragg could have captured thousands of stragglers and take them prisoner and cut Rosecran's Army down.

Second, the Union inflicted more casualties on the Confederates-losses they couldn't recover as easily, including 3 brigadier generals dead.

It forced Bragg to lay siege to Chattanooga, something his army wasn't prepared to do. When the Confederates lost their positions on Missionary Ridge, the Union discovered that their besiegers were suffering from the cold with a lack of proper clothing and scantly rations. The siege, though nearly successful is starving the Union to surrender, also left Bragg vulnerable with an ill led and equipped army.

 

[Horace Porter]

It's all a matter of perception. To me, it was a victory in 3 ways, the Army of the Cumberland managed to reach Chattanooga and weren't pursued by Bragg. In this state they were broken and Bragg could have captured thousands of stragglers and take them prisoner and cut Rosecran's Army down.

Second, the Union inflicted more casualties on the Confederates-losses they couldn't recover as easily, including 3 brigadier generals dead.

It forced Bragg to lay siege to Chattanooga, something his army wasn't prepared to do. When the Confederates lost their positions on Missionary Ridge, the Union discovered that their besiegers were suffering from the cold with a lack of proper clothing and scantly rations. The siege, though nearly successful is starving the Union to surrender, also left Bragg vulnerable with an ill led and equipped army.

If this is the reasoning you use, did the Confederacy ever win a victory of note?

 

[leftyhunter]

When an army flees the field and is bottled up in a city with no supply lines to the outside world and requires tens of thousands of troops to bail it out that my friends is called a defeat.
Leftyhunter

 

[Albert Sailhorst]

If Chickamauga is considered a Union victory, I will quit studying the Civil War.....IF it was a victory, Rosecrans must have been a genius for intentionally getting his army to scatter, retreat, become besieged and starved.....The magnitude of his military cunning and planning far out-shines any other commander in World history...Which, I suppose, is why he was removed from command.

 

[dlofting]

If Chickamauga was a Union victory then Dunkirk was a British victory, because they were able to evacuate a large portion of their army. Of course Winston Churchill reminded everyone that "wars are not won by evacuations".

 

[leftyhunter]

Chickumauga is a victory the same way a certain Republican Governor who ran for president a while back "saved "his marriage. If your wife leaves you for another man then becomes disillusioned with him and runs back to your arms thus saving the marriage .
Leftyhunter

 

[leftyhunter]

If Chickamauga was a Union victory then Dunkirk was a British victory, because they were able to evacuate a large portion of their army. Of course Winston Churchill reminded everyone that "wars are not won by evacuations".

Dunkirk was a British victory because it lulled Hitler into a false sense of superiority!
Leftyhunter

 

[StephenColbert27]

No.

 

[David Moore]

When an army flees the field and is bottled up in a city with no supply lines to the outside world and requires tens of thousands of troops to bail it out that my friends is called a defeat.
Leftyhunter

They actually did have access to to the outside world by crossing Walden's Ridge although it was slow and subject to raids.
They knew that reinforcements were on their way. Rosecrans was devising the plan that would open the Cracker Line.
pgs 419-420 https://books.google.com/books?id=X...HV8sAPEQ6AEIJTAA#v=onepage&q=overmuch&f=false

 

[David Moore]

If Chickamauga is considered a Union victory, I will quit studying the Civil War.....IF it was a victory, Rosecrans must have been a genius for intentionally getting his army to scatter, retreat, become besieged and starved.....The magnitude of his military cunning and planning far out-shines any other commander in World history...Which, I suppose, is why he was removed from command.

Lots of opinions on this thread but little documentation from primary or secondary sources. I was hoping this new thread would become a repository of sources that others could consult while forming opinions.