Warner's Patent 1851

[Danvilledirt]

Hello everyone. I'm a new member and ran across this site while trying to get more information on an old pistol I have. This site was helpful and I enjoyed looking through it enough to join. I have an old Warner pistol and thought I'd post about it along with some photos because of the topic. Back in the 1930's just north of Danville Virginia my father dug up a Warner 1851 pistol while he and a friend were building a fort in the woods. I've tried hard to find more information about it but it is scare. The pistol appears to be a Warner Springfield Arms 6 shot .31/.32? caliber with a creation date of mid 1850's possibly. The barrel mic's at .31+ as do the cylinders so don't know with precision the exact caliber. It has a barrel length of 4.25 inches. It is interesting that I can't find a Warner 1851 pistol with the same engraving that this one has. It isn't quite like the other Warner Jan 1851 engravings of photos I have seen. I also have some info that may or may not be completely accurate; It is my understanding the pistols' designer was Thomas Warner, the superintendent of the Massachusetts Arms Company and former master armorer of the government armory of Springfield Mass. His brother James was superintendent of Springfield Arms Company and who patented the pistol. Take note of the engraving and how it differs. Thanks for the forum and looking at my contribution. Add to it if you can help with further information! Happy New Year!

 

[plymouthairrifle]

Very neat story!! Mount it on a nice old piece of barn siding and enjoy it! I sure wish my Dad would have found and left me a piece like this.

 

[laynlo4evr]

Hello everyone. I'm a new member and ran across this site while trying to get more information on an old pistol I have. This site was helpful and I enjoyed looking through it enough to join. I have an old Warner pistol and thought I'd post about it along with some photos because of the topic. Back in the 1930's just north of Danville Virginia my father dug up a Warner 1851 pistol while he and a friend were building a fort in the woods. I've tried hard to find more information about it but it is scare. The pistol appears to be a Warner Springfield Arms 6 shot .31/.32? caliber with a creation date of mid 1850's possibly. The barrel mic's at .31+ as do the cylinders so don't know with precision the exact caliber. It has a barrel length of 4.25 inches. It is interesting that I can't find a Warner 1851 pistol with the same engraving that this one has. It isn't quite like the other Warner Jan 1851 engravings of photos I have seen. I also have some info that may or may not be completely accurate; It is my understanding the pistols' designer was Thomas Warner, the superintendent of the Massachusetts Arms Company and former master armorer of the government armory of Springfield Mass. His brother James was superintendent of Springfield Arms Company and who patented the pistol. Take note of the engraving and how it differs. Thanks for the forum and looking at my contribution. Add to it if you can help with further information! Happy New Year!
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Here's my 2 cents, probably a good chance of it being a .32 cal. The engraving seems to be "homemade " and looks like an artillery battalion insignia. Danville had it's own artillery brigade, The Danville Artillery. During the Civil War Danville was home to thousands of confederate soldiers. My thoughts lead to that it could have been an officer's pistol (because of the engraving) and was lost due to being sick or injured.

 

[Story]

Neat! Being unfamiliar with that weapon, I went noodling and found this -

His first firearms patent had been granted in 1851 for a percussion revolver design, while he was working as the chief designer for the Springfield Arms Company. It was at this time that Warner had his first run in with a patent infringement lawsuit, in this case brought by Samuel Colt and the Colt Patent Firearms Manufacturing Company. The end result of the suit was that Warner and Springfield Arms were forced to stop manufacturing percussion revolvers whose mechanisms rotated the cylinder as part of the cocking action of the hammer. In an attempt to circumvent the patent issue, the firm adopted the double trigger mechanism that allowed for manual rotation of cylinders, but this did not materially increase sales or prove particularly successful. At the same time Colt was pursuing Warner and the Springfield Arms Company, he was also pursuing the Massachusetts Arms Company. Colt won that suit as well and Mass Arms temporarily adopted the use of Dr. Edward Maynard's automatic tape priming system in an attempt to circumvent Colt's patent protections.

Excellent James Warner 2nd Model 1st Variant Percussion Pocket Revolver

Excellent James Warner 2nd Model 1st Variant Percussion Pocket Revolver

collegehillarsenal.com

 

[Story]

The engraving seems to be "homemade " and looks like an artillery battalion insignia. Danville had it's own artillery brigade, The Danville Artillery. During the Civil War Danville was home to thousands of confederate soldiers.

Interesting observation. Since @Smokin' Joe is a Danville-ite, maybe he can weigh in on pre-war militia purchases and whatnot.

Impressions - Virginia Militia ca 1858-1861 | Reenactors Forum - Join, Drill, See the Elephant

Greetings! It's been a while since I posted on the board. I'm still writing a 2 volume set on the Virginia Manufactory of Arms short infantry musket/light infantry musket, artillery carbine and cannon. Things have been hectic the last few years and now I have spawned a lil one, so writing has...

civilwartalk.com

 

[JOHN42768]

Here's my 2 cents, probably a good chance of it being a .32 cal. The engraving seems to be "homemade " and looks like an artillery battalion insignia. Danville had it's own artillery brigade, The Danville Artillery. During the Civil War Danville was home to thousands of confederate soldiers. My thoughts lead to that it could have been an officer's pistol (because of the engraving) and was lost due to being sick or injured.

Welcome, enjoy

 

[Old Soldier]

This is the pistol 'as bought':

IMPROVED MEANS FOR REVOLVING THE BREECHES OF REPEATING FIREARMS.
Here is the patent diagram:

It is within the transitional revolver group, but could also be a 'true' revolver. Straight in-line nipples wouild definitely be a 'true' revolver. Single action. Later variants had a double trigger model too. The full patent is at: https://revolvers.candrsenal.com/timeline/patent-james-warner/ As for most patents, there was no specific caliber, but the first production pistols were .28, later variants were .31. There is anothers for Warner in 1851 too (improvements in barrel detachment) and 1854.

It was another get-out from Colt's patents. Once Colt's patents had expired, they were no longer needed.

More info on the Warners on this site https://civilwartalk.com/threads/warners-patent-jan-1851.117026/
and, of course: https://collegehillarsenal.com/Very-Fine-Warner-2nd-Model-1st-Type-Percussion-Pocket-Revolver

 

[Smokin' Joe]

Interesting observation. Since @Smokin' Joe is a Danville-ite, maybe he can weigh in on pre-war militia purchases and whatnot.

Impressions - Virginia Militia ca 1858-1861 | Reenactors Forum - Join, Drill, See the Elephant

Greetings! It's been a while since I posted on the board. I'm still writing a 2 volume set on the Virginia Manufactory of Arms short infantry musket/light infantry musket, artillery carbine and cannon. Things have been hectic the last few years and now I have spawned a lil one, so writing has...

civilwartalk.com

I'm actually in the Winchester area. But travelled/lived all over the Old Dominion, including the empty lot/industrial area where the depot once stood.

The engraving looks crude, but decent.
This would be considered a personal arm, a "boot pistol" for instance. Personal arms were private purchased, before, during, after the conflict, pistols of all types. Swords were a very common purchase by militia officers during all periods with the higher percentage purchases during times of martial spirit, 1840s, and late 1850s, with a brief resurgence post war just prior to reconstruction. The pistol could have been purchased during one of those boom periods. I'm thinking that it was either purchased and later engraved similar to trench art during some downtime or purchased and engraved post war as a veteran's piece; engraved by the owner or given as a gift. It's near impossible to pinpoint the story of piece, but Virginia did not purchase these types of arms. I'm leaning to post War engraving, but there really isn't enough information other than it's a period piece.

Now look at the 2 most prominent flags. They seem to be US National flags with the one too many stripes vs CSA 1st National. Stars are in a rectangular pattern which doesnt tell us as much as the stripes. The cannon are clear. Again similar situation. A union soldier/veteran, officer/enlisted, pre-during-post war personal boot pistol. A southerner with prewar federal battery ties, we just don't know other than it's a private purchase personal defense weapon. Cool heirloom and in great shape!