Virginia Cavalry Saber find

[scooter748driver]

A friend let me know about an auction this past Friday. I wasn't in the market for anything but thought I'd browse the listings to see if anything caught my eye. This did. It is a Virginia manufactured cavalry saber (Type 3 I think but that's a guess). As you can see it's in relic condition. I've seen a few for sale before and, while they are interesting sabers to me, they always seem to be priced ridiculously high even in relic condition.

On a whim I decided to place a bid on it just for the heck of it. My max was low and I thought if I won it great and if not then no big deal. Well, wouldn't you know it - I won it . What makes this special - to me at least - is that the spine is marked "4th Va Regmt." I have no idea how many of these were made by Virginia or how many went to this regiment, but I find it interesting to be able to identify the unit this one served with.

I haven't received it yet but when I do I'll post better pics. Here is a pic from the auction. I will probably leave it in relic condition, but I'd like to hear thoughts on having a handle/grip put on it. Think that would "ruin" it or take away from it??? Thanks.

 

[Glen_C]

Leave it alone. Wipe with Windex (ammonia and alcohol), Get a rifle silicon sock. Skip any other coatings.

It is a wonderful sword, a US Virginia Manufactory, I don't own one and others are better versed.

https://americansocietyofarmscollectors.org/wp-content/uploads/2019/06/2011-B104-Virginia-Manufactory-of-Arms-The-Origina.pdf

Me
Jealous

 

[Cornpone and Molasses]

This is great! Congratulations!

 

[bobinwmass]

I've always liked these swords but never owned one. I also vote to leave as is. Once cleaned as suggested, I usually apply a treatment of Renaissance Wax, and reapply annually.

 

[Richard E. Schenk]

Congrats! I missed this but picked up another bargain at the same sale. Lot 92051 was listed as
"US NAVY M1860 NAVAL CUTLASS By AMES". Looking closer at the description, I saw the blade was stamped ""US A.D.K. 1864", which let me know that rather than an ordinary Navy M1861 cutlass this was one of the rare Army examples. Ames received a contact from the Army on 18 January 1864 for 300 Navy-pattern cutlasses which it delivered on 10 February. These Army cutlasses were issued to Col. William A. Howard's New York Volunteer Artillery Regiment's "marine artillery" units manning gun boats used on the James River and other streams. They differed from the Navy versions by having the inspector initials "A.D.K" (for Army inspector A. D. King) instead of "D.R." (Daniel Reynolds) stamped of the blade and pommel and "U.S." instead of "U.S.N."on the ricasso. The sword is in rather ratty condition as these usually are. It appears to be unique in that it still has the original wire wrap on the grip. All of the other example I have seen have had the wire wrap removed and the grips jacked as part of a post-war modification. It sold at the hammer price of 390 plus 20% buyers premium. Obviously neither the Auction House nor the other bidders recognized this as being a rare variety.

 

[UCVRelics]

Nice Score. Congrats.

 

[scooter748driver]

Congrats! I missed this but picked up another bargain at the same sale. Lot 92051 was listed as
"US NAVY M1860 NAVAL CUTLASS By AMES". Looking closer at the description, I saw the blade was stamped ""US A.D.K. 1864", which let me know that rather than an ordinary Navy M1861 cutlass this was one of the rare Army examples. Ames received a contact from the Army on 18 January 1864 for 300 Navy-pattern cutlasses which it delivered on 10 February. These Army cutlasses were issued to Col. William A. Howard's New York Volunteer Artillery Regiment's "marine artillery" units manning gun boats used on the James River and other streams. They differed from the Navy versions by having the inspector initials "A.D.K" (for Army inspector A. D. King) instead of "D.R." (Daniel Reynolds) stamped of the blade and pommel and "U.S." instead of "U.S.N."on the ricasso. The sword is in rather ratty condition as these usually are. It appears to be unique in that it still has the original wire wrap on the grip. All of the other example I have seen have had the wire wrap removed and the grips jacked as part of a post-war modification. It sold at the hammer price of 390 plus 20% buyers premium. Obviously neither the Auction House nor the other bidders recognized this as being a rare variety.
View attachment 471656

Nice!!! I saw that one but not being well versed in cutlasses didn't recognize it for what it is. A great example of doing the research beforehand so that these hidden treasures don't slip by. That's how I ended up with a Confederate shotgun. Congrats!

 

[scooter748driver]

The saber arrived late yesterday. It's in great shape and very tight/no looseness at all. I need to get better pics but here's a quick snapshot of the regimental markings. I'll try to get better pics this weekend, but if you're curious how these sabers were marked, here's your answer.

 

[TLHS]

A friend let me know about an auction this past Friday. I wasn't in the market for anything but thought I'd browse the listings to see if anything caught my eye. This did. It is a Virginia manufactured cavalry saber (Type 3 I think but that's a guess). As you can see it's in relic condition. I've seen a few for sale before and, while they are interesting sabers to me, they always seem to be priced ridiculously high even in relic condition.

On a whim I decided to place a bid on it just for the heck of it. My max was low and I thought if I won it great and if not then no big deal. Well, wouldn't you know it - I won it . What makes this special - to me at least - is that the spine is marked "4th Va Regmt." I have no idea how many of these were made by Virginia or how many went to this regiment, but I find it interesting to be able to identify the unit this one served with.

I haven't received it yet but when I do I'll post better pics. Here is a pic from the auction. I will probably leave it in relic condition, but I'd like to hear thoughts on having a handle/grip put on it. Think that would "ruin" it or take away from it??? Thanks.

View attachment 471633

Congratulations on your win. Being an untouched Third Model (evidenced by clip point of blade) probably made between 1816 to 1821. From a collector's stand point, it is considered best to enjoy it as found and not restore grips

 

[R. Porter]

For a cleaned-up version of the sword, also issued to the 4th Va Regt like the one above, go to the url:

http://www.damonmills.com/PS%20Pages/PS%2040/VA%20MFG%20Sword.htm

Apparently there were only 4 regiments.

For a discussion of the Virginia Manufactory with pictures see url:

https://americansocietyofarmscollectors.org/wp-content/uploads/2022/04/2011-B104-Virginia-Manufactory-of-Arms-The-Origina.pdf

The site was destroyed by the construction of a new headquarters building for MeadWestvaco in 2009.

 

[RedRover]

For a cleaned-up version of the sword, also issued to the 4th Va Regt like the one above, go to the url:

http://www.damonmills.com/PS%20Pages/PS%2040/VA%20MFG%20Sword.htm

Apparently there were only 4 regiments.

For a discussion of the Virginia Manufactory with pictures see url:

https://americansocietyofarmscollectors.org/wp-content/uploads/2022/04/2011-B104-Virginia-Manufactory-of-Arms-The-Origina.pdf

The site was destroyed by the construction of a new headquarters building for MeadWestvaco in 2009.

The Regimental markings on the pre-war swords regard the cavalry regiments of the Virginia Militia in the ante-bellum period. From 1806, the militia cavalry companies in each Division of militia were to compose essentially a regiment. To this end, each regiment of militia within the division was to raise a company of cavalry:

From the 1819 Militia law, this continued:

The 4th Regiment of Cavalry (VA Militia) was among the militia mobilized during the Nat Turner rebellion in Southhampton County in 1831:

Alexandria Gazette, Dec. 9, 1831.

From the Virginia Militia laws: 1858 there were five regiments of cavalry, again, one to each division of militia.

The 4th Division of Virginia militia, to which the 4th Cavalry Regiment was attached, then consisted of:

 

[Lanyard Puller]

Here are some photos or a Va. Mfg. first model, with the previously mentioned, Ames scabbard with the copper mounts and rings. This old girl went to the 1st. Va. Regt and was so marked.

Sorry for the double 1st Va photo...It's still early here.