Grant US Grant

[diane]

Well, it sounds like his mind is a bit foggy...the brain is definitely affected long after the drinking stops...medical fact

I've read his memoirs - in fact, they're sitting over here on my shelf - and they don't sound like he had mind fog, or that his brain was affected by drinking. Won't say he never touched the stuff, or was never drunk, but he didn't drink enough to cause his brain to be affected. Maybe it's the 19th century style of writing that has you - it can seem tedious.

 

[Horace Porter]

Another flame war over Grant waiting to break out. We've been here before.

You are aware that it doesn't say much for the fighting qualities of Confederate generals and men to say that they lost to a man who was drunk all the time. Grant drunk looks better than McClellan sober.

 

[rhettbutler1865]

"What General Lee's feelings were I do not know. As he was a man of much dignity, with an impassible face, it was impossible to say whether he felt inwardly glad that the end had finally come, or felt sad over the result, and was too manly to show it. Whatever his feelings, they were entirely concealed from my observation; but my own feelings, which had been quite jubilant on the receipt of his letter, were sad and depressed. I felt like anything rather than rejoicing at the downfall of a foe who had fought so long and valiantly, and had suffered so much for a cause, though that cause was, I believe, one of the worst for which a people ever fought, and one for which there was the least excuse. I do not question, however, the sincerity of the great mass of those who were opposed to us." Memoirs of Ulysses S. Grant

Yeah, "tedious alcoholic rantings."

No--that certainly was not tedious or ranting. Thanks for the quote.

 

[favedave]

Grant drunk looks better than McClellan sober.

I think that's why Lincoln wanted to send whatever Grant was drinking to the rest of his generals.

 

[rhettbutler1865]

OK-just to retreat from this barrage I'm getting: I haven't read that much of the book yet, so I'm sorry I said the first thing that came to my mind.

 

[rhettbutler1865]

I think that's why Lincoln wanted to send whatever Grant was drinking to the rest of his generals.

I totally agree.

 

[peteanddelmar]

"Sir, if you ever again presume to speak disrespectfully of General Grant in my presence, either you or I will sever his connection with this University." [Robert E. Lee, quoted in S. S. McCormick, The Outlook, Vol. LVI, p. 686]

Lee was also quoted, reportedly by a member of his staff who heard him say it, "Sir, your opinion is a very poor compliment to me. We all thought Richmond, protected as it was by our splendid fortifications and defended by our army of veterans, could not be taken. Yet Grant turned his face to our capital, and never turned it away until we had surrendered. Now, I have carefully searched the military records of both ancient and modern history, and have never found Grant's superior as a general. I doubt if his superior can be found in all history." [James G. Wilson, General Grant, pp. 366-367]

See this? I liked one of your posts!

Both Lee and Grant had to be good men to accord the respect they did to each other.
I've read some of these quotes but had forgotten them. Thanks for posting them.

 

[Sid J.]

Have you read his memoirs? I can't fill pages here of text from the book...

You might go here and cut and paste the offending passages, it might make for an interesting discussion.

Yes, I have read Grant's memoirs, and find it to be whatever the opposite of drunk and tedious is.

 

[CMWinkler]

What an interesting thread. It demonstrates how some here feel compelled to attack no matter how insignificant or unguarded the offense may be. I would strongly suggest that there is a difference between attacking the post and attacking the poster. Some here seem compelled to attack the poster. That needs to cease. More of it will result in warnings, points and other moderation.

Just fair warning.

Posted as a Moderator.

 

[Northern Light]

So do you think he was lying? Just "being a gentleman?" Or do you think he was being truthful?

I think he meant that Lee always spoke as a gentleman, and only spoke the truth as he saw it. But I may be wrong.

 

[Northern Light]

I can say with certainty that Grant's Memoirs is quite possibly one of the best books ever written about the ACW. His clarity and attention to detail are remarkable. For some to suggest otherwise, indicates the presence of a troll or an unrepentant partisan.

I was going to like this comment until I read the last part. I like and agree with the comment about the Memoirs.

 

[jgoodguy]

When you make an uninformed [even though another word is more accurate] comment about "tedious" "alcoholic rantings," expect to be called on it.

Our esteemed poster notes that while inaccuracy or even mere rhetoric is subject to studious and polite correction, impolite remarks are subject to moderator actions.

 

[kevikens]

He could do a great deal, with a great deal.

 

[Specster]

No, he was cold sober when he wrote those. He couldn't drink if he'd wanted to - he had throat cancer.

I think he died within a week of finishing them, so if he was drunk or high on morphine, he has a good reason to be - unrelenting pain. He was so weak toward the end that he had to communicate with signs (to finish the book). If it sounds like ramblings, these are likely the reason why, as you astutely observe.

 

[Specster]

Also, its kind of odd but both Grant and J. Davis were near broke toward the ends of their lives. Grant got swindled out of most of his assets. Both decided to write memoirs so their was some $$$ for their families when they died. Davis's memoirs were lengthy and printed first rate - best paper quality, bindings, covers. Most people did not have the money to buy them. I think they sold initially for $70 which was huge money. Davis made next to nothing and may have lost money because the ordeal ended with a lawsuit between him and the publisher.

Grant ended up (postumously), making about $500,000 - a tidy sum in those days.

 

[johan_steele]

Well as some of the finest soldiers in the last century have viewed Grant's Memoirs as a masterpiece and a man the calibre of Twain opted to help him finish them... I know which opinions I view as valid.

 

[James B White]

Might be of some interest: An old thread on "Who Wrote Grant's Memoirs" at the following link http://civilwartalk.com/threads/who-wrote-grants-memoir.104532

 

[rhettbutler1865]

When you make an uninformed [even though another word is more accurate] comment about "tedious" "alcoholic rantings," expect to be called on it.

and what Is the more accurate word?

 

[Quara]

and what Is the more accurate word?

"Let it go, let it go...."[ /frozen]

 

[Patrick H]

General Grant got the job done. My opinion is: More power to him. I can't comment on Gen. Lee's inner motivations for making his own statement, but I believe he was being truthful and respectful at the same time. I'll stand with Gen. Lee on those statements.