Unidentified cookware

[Billy1977]

Hello everybody, I was hoping that a Civil War cookware expert on here could help me identify the allegiance of these cooking utensils. The first photo, here,

is an exception, here's the caption on Pinterest where I found it:

"Details about her life are little known as family members inadvertently discarded her diaries in the 1950s. Upon the plantation owner's death, in either 1843 or 1851, his wife and daughter, Elizabeth, freed their slaves. An outspoken abolitionist, Elizabeth arranged for Bowser to be educated in Philadelphia. As tensions increased between the North and South, Bowser returned to work as a household servant for the Van Lew family."
https://www.pinterest.com/pin/546483736006950203/
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So am I taking this right in presuming that this is a period photo of a cooking spit being used on a southern plantation? Because if so I don't imagine it would be too different than what the C.S. Army would be using for cooking in the field. No, this is not a period photo, see post # 3.

The rest of the photos were said (by the sellers of the items) to be of Civil War period cookware, I just don't know which side these utensils cooked food for. I don't own any of these relics and I don't have any intention of buying them, I can't afford it frankly, so I don't have anything personally invested in any of these even being from the correct time period. I'm just happy with the photos of them, in knowing what the gear looked like. As always if someone spots an item that they think or know to be not of the Civil War period, especially something made later than the war, please do post and mention it so I can correct it on here, as the last thing I would want to do is help spread incorrect information. (I'm fine with stuff manufactured in the 1850s, it would almost certainly still be in use). I promise I won't be offended at all.

O.K., so let's get to it. Here is a camp ladle, dated 1860. Did it secede from the Union or remain with the federal government to cook food for its soldiery?


Another camp ladle whose allegiance I can't determine and am hoping someone here can help me with:

 

[Billy1977]

Last but certainly not least we have this big guy, an iron cauldron and its two associated ladles.

Which side's soldiers gathered around him and ladled out the stew or soup when it was dinnertime?

Many thanks to whomever can give some insight into the identity of these mystery cooking utensils.

 

[Frederick14Va]

The first image posted is obviously a reenactment image, the gear and equipment present is a rather poor example of period cook wares...

Mess Utensils were commonly procured by Quartermaster's under supply contracts or simply purchased off the open commercial market... hence the details of design frequently differed between maker to maker... Unless one has a specific provenance to a given maker or known identified use... Very little differs between what US or CS would have used..
Respective pattern and style differences tend to ride along regional preferences... and skill level of the forgers thus employed.. A ladle made in 1850's wouldn't generally differ considerably from one made in 1870's in most cases.. Lots of overlap of styles were present... some crudely forged.. others nicely mass produced commercial wares...

We normally would be examining the items material used and the respective assembly/forging method that was used to give a relative time line... The 1870's saw significant changes and progression in cook ware patterns and styles... which is where we typically would apply the guideline cut off of what "could have been" used during the 1860's... from what obviously didn't..

The massive large iron kettles were more likely employed in making soap, than soup..

 

[donna]

Good photos. Have to check further on ones used.

 

[UCVRelics]

One of the things about cooking during the CW both North & South was that most of the time in the field soldiers were issued rations and would have mess mate usually 5 to 8 guys that would cook there rations together and used what ever they had or could get to cook with. Depending on where they were or from would determine what hey had to cook with. One of the main things they used were either a skillet or dutch oven, knife fork and tin plate and of course a pot to boil coffee.

 

[7th Mississippi Infantry]

According to letters from the very early days of the 7th Mississippi, the men say when new companies began arriving at their first encampment . . . each man was loaded down with pots & pans from back home.

That lasted until their first "long march" of about nine miles through a Gulf Coast swamp to their new camp.

Needless to say, much of this iron dinnerware was tossed before the march was over.

 

[Billy1977]

Thank you all for the responses. I figured there was no "standard issue" set of cookware issued to Union or Confederate troops but that there was considerable variety like you said, as it was procured from different manufacturers making their own utensils their own way rather than utensils made to a certain set of specs issued by the War Department. Thanks for confirming that and while I realize that the lack of uniformity makes it much more difficult to determine their origin what I was wondering was if members of the forum who use metal detectors and dig at Civil War campsites, and who had dug at both Union and Confederate campsites, could perhaps offer an opinion as to having dug a ladle etc. like this at a Union camp but not a Confederate one or vice versa. That would help me a great deal if someone with experience at unearthing campsite relics could put in their two cents and say if they've seen cooking utensils at a C.S. or U.S. campsite and if they noticed this or that kind at one but not the other.

Realizing all of the above about the difficulty in determining 100% the provenance here are a few more cooking utensils believed to be from the Civil War era but on which side they served I don't know. Here's a spatula


and a strainer


and another strainer, made of brass and of a totally different design:


Thanks again to everyone.

 

[donna]

Wonderful looking cookware. Would love to have some of the old pieces. Do have my Granny's rolling pin. Her father craved it. Also have old colander that from my Grandma's family. I use it about everyday.

Have my Granny's old fruit cake pans. They were her mother's pans. Also have old coffee grinder from 19th century.

 

[donna]

A good book on description of cookware stocked in a middle class American kitchen during the Civil war is "The American Kitchen" by Ellen M. Plante. She states that cookware was usually cast iron or tin. Copper pots were expensive and found in homes of the well to do.

Typical kitchen ware:

Large pots and pans, oval fish kettle, at least 4 saucepans of various sizes, several skillets (cast iron), waffle iron, bread pans, toasting iron and tea kettle.

Small tin items: cake pans, pie pans, oil can, funnel, egg boiler, scoops, dippers, colander, bread box, and cake box.

Woodenware: breadboard, spice boxes, salt box.

Earthenware:
jars with lids for butter, salt and pickles.

Baskets of various sizes. These used for gathering fruit, vegetables and eggs.

 

[Billy1977]

Neat! Thanks Donna! As someone who isn't much good at or experienced at cooking beyond BBQing on a grill I greatly appreciate the details. And when I created this thread I was thinking "I bet Donna would like to see some of these utensils" so I'm glad you like them. A quick question (or two): Were a set of knives common back then for the average home kitchen? And are a butcher knife and a carving knife two names for the same thing? And were there regional differences in cookware between north and south? For example I've seen two of these "spider cookers" that look like a big skillet with three or four legs under it, but so far the only two examples I've seen were both confirmed (as far as I know) to be Confederate.

Maybe stuff pertaining to making cornbread might also be more common for a southern soldier than a northern one? Like a cornmeal sifter?

 

[donna]

An interesting article on the Spider Skillet and pan is at:
http://journalofantiques.com/2001/columns/hearth-to-hearth/hearth-theres-history-in-your-frying-pan/

 

[donna]

I see the site doesn't come up. I googled Spider pans. skillets. Hearth to hearth came up on these pans. They been used for centuries. Every old kitchen had them.

 

[donna]

Try this:

http://journalofantiques.com/2001/c...-to-hearth-theres-history-in-your-frying-pan/

Got it this time.

 

[Billy1977]

That's fascinating Donna, thanks for the article. I had no idea these cooking "spiders" were that widely used, regionally or time-wise. I love to find out stuff like this.

 

[Billy1977]

The massive large iron kettles were more likely employed in making soap, than soup..

Do you mean industrially, as in a civilian soap factory, or do you mean the troops themselves (their quartermasters probably) making up batches of soap in a cauldron? (Or maybe civilian farmers etc. using such a thing to make up a batch of soap for their family?)

 

[donna]

Just wondering if this should be moved to Food Forum. What do Mod think? It is all about cooking equipment.

If had been in Food Forum would have gotten Cook Award.

 

[DixieRifles]

Last but certainly not least we have this big guy, an iron cauldron and its two associated ladles.

As a young kid in the rural Mississippi Delta, I saw a lot of ole shanties that had a large cauldron in the front yard. I didnt inquire about them then but have always thiught they were used for either making lye soap or washing.

 

[Frederick14Va]

Do you mean industrially, as in a civilian soap factory, or do you mean the troops themselves (their quartermasters probably) making up batches of soap in a cauldron? (Or maybe civilian farmers etc. using such a thing to make up a batch of soap for their family?)

The large kettles were not uncommon to be found on large farms. Typically used for such purposes as making soap and rendering lard. May be a home venture or production for a local merchant. Quartermaster Dept primarily procured and issued needed goods... rarely making or producing these products themselves... Most were purchased on the open commercial markets or under contract to provide same to the Army...

 

[Frederick14Va]

I usually break down mess gear by their type and intended purposes, and time-place. We have the individual's goods, such as plate, cup and utensils.... Items a small group or mess likely would have used... small coffee pot, small skillet, or spider pan... Then we get into what a company would have been issued... larger coffee pots, kettles, and related larger ladles, strainers, meat forks etc.... (large garrisons and permanent fortifications, camps and their typically large kitchens is left for another topic)

Individual use items were commonly issued.... many brought along or obtained better ones on their own... sutlers also typically carried and sold such goods to the soldiers. Wide variety of types, patterns and styles existed... What a given US or CS soldier may have had or made use of was similar if not identical.

Soldiers were quite inventive... if they found the need for something they did not have, it was not uncommon to find evidence of creative repurposing of other items... Tossing an old convex canteen into the fire to melt the solder to separate the two pressed tin halves... can make a useable plate, or makeshift skillet out of them, or punching nail holes in it to create a crude strainer... both sides did it....

Company issued mess gear was a general standard. Usually kettles/pots, coffee pot, and related utensils... Cast iron goods were expensive and heavy... Tin ware lighter and more easily manufactured and obtained. Company baggage was commonly restricted by weight and amount of space they took up on a wagon, so obvious tin goods were preferred. The company issued tin pot sets of 2 or 3 pots of different sizes that could be stored inside each other was a common issued item for companies. We see these present in many period camp images. Mostly a Federal issued item but we can see them present in early CS camps too.... So not totally exclusive to one side or the other.

What the soldier may have had available while in winter camp or static emplacement typically was much different than what we know the soldier had with him on active campaign. Company gear less likely used as much less on certain occasions when time allowed... Soldiers were to their own devices to do what they can. Many times they would group together and form "messes" to consolidate the cooking duty efforts... Occasionally they would themselves procure a small skillet, coffee pot and other small necessities... each would commonly carry one piece of the gear... combined the effort when rations were issued. Otherwise the common habit is to cook and prep ones own, using whatever they could find to use... use your tin cup to boil up your coffee... a stick or discarded ramrod to broil your meat...

When we read accounts of units on active campaign... and directives to issue three days rations in advance of a move... these rations typically were not issued already cooked.... fresh beef, bacon, hardtack, corn meal, or whatever were issued out as is... the soldiers would cook the rations up and place in their haversacks then hit the road when they needed too... One would eat off these rations for the next few days. The rest left back in the rear...

Examining period camp images can glean much information of the styles, patterns and types of cook ware that the soldiers used... However must keep in mind the time-place of the images.... many were taken in static camps, winter camps and garrisons... Different settings than when they were off on the line of march on campaigns... Museum collections that have mess articles with provenance can also be quite valuable. Unfortunately much of what reenactors make use of falls short of being authentic... so heed caution not to simply replicate what other reenactors are seen doing or using till proven otherwise by solid research... Just because an item looks old doesn't mean its old enough to be period correct.... "They wont know no difference"... has been frequently heard.... actually many actually do know the difference... and displaying an obvious Griswold or Wagner skillet that grandma used to use sitting on your fire in front of spectators... will quickly deflate whatever impression credibility one may have started off with...

Cook wares are unfortunately not given much historical detailed focus at displays and programs as other stuff... "close enuff" is the usual proclamation... Strangely... period cookwares is one of my many topics of research over the decades... and have collected a fair amount of both original and authentic reproductions of various articles used during the period... This past year was fortunate to pick up two original coffee pots... including one of the massive 2.5 gallon ones commonly referred to as a "Company Coffee Pot".... and a 1840's era lantern... Oh yeah... lanterns are another obsession...lol...