Tracking Enfield Inventory Number - help needed please

[Cornpone and Molasses]

Here is my Tower P53 A suffix. 4805A (14,805) with other Confederate markings. It has an 1862 dated lock plate. Tim Prince was great and answered my email when I picked this up 3 years ago.

 

[Cornpone and Molasses]

Also have this buttplate #294 which was recovered in Franklin Tennessee.

 

[Old Soldier]

So since there is no inventory # on the buttstock of my EP BOND but 3 other CSA markings in the stock, I'll have to go with the CSA failed to make final payment so it went elsewhere quite possibly the Union?

There were plenty of other suppliers. Only the second contract with Sinclair, Hamilton & Co were numbered like this, the first imports on the Fingal were not, neither was anything from Barnett or LAC although many show the SHC stamp as well as the JS/anchor and the CH1 stamp - all being indicators of a Confederate contract buy. SHC were also dropped from direct contracts later due to proof they were charging more than the standard price..

BTW - The reason why some of the Georgia Enfields bear a serial is because the central powers distributed any that arrived in the early shipments to any who needed them, rather than just the state of Georgia. Georgia complained bitterly to the national council ("... bought and paid for by us!") This was compensated for by 'donating' some of the serialled rifles to Georgia.

 

[Obi1gr]

There were plenty of other suppliers. Only the second contract with Sinclair, Hamilton & Co were numbered like this, the first imports on the Fingal were not, neither was anything from Barnett or LAC although many show the SHC stamp as well as the JS/anchor and the CH1 stamp - all being indicators of a Confederate contract buy. SHC were also dropped from direct contracts later due to proof they were charging more than the standard price..

BTW - The reason why some of the Georgia Enfields bear a serial is because the central powers distributed any that arrived in the early shipments to any who needed them, rather than just the state of Georgia. Georgia complained bitterly to the national council ("... bought and paid for by us!") This was compensated for by 'donating' some of the serialled rifles to Georgia.

There actually are some numbered LAC guns, not many, but a few. I have an 1861 dated gun with matching ramrod, number 826

 

[Old Soldier]

There actually are some numbered LAC guns, not many, but a few. I have an 1861 dated gun with matching ramrod, number 826

Not surprised. Some were supplied to Sinclair, Hamilton & Co in early days, but LAC were in the process of finishing a War Department contract at that time and could not supply in quantity. They later had a separate contact and many bear Confederate viewing marks. They also supplied Adams, Adams-Beaumont and Kerr revolvers

 

[Package4]

I was fortunate enough to purchase a well-used Confederate P53 Enfield recently for what seemed (to me anyway) to be a decent price. Not great, but OK. I haven't received it as yet so I can only go by the online pics and description, but will post pics when I receive it.

The lock is marked E.P. Bond London in two lines. I do not see a crown on the lock. The stock has a faint JS Anchor but I do not know about the presence of a stock manufactures name. The top of the butt of the stock is marked with a capital B just forward to the butt plate. My understanding is that this B also designates it as being furnished by EP Bond. The top of the buttplate tang marked with the inventory number 8274.

That's a long introduction just to ask this:

Is there a way to determine when this particular rifle was shipped to and/or arrived in the Confederacy?

Knowing the ship it sailed on, the port it went to, etc. would be fantastic and amazing! I understand that some of the shipping invoices, etc. exist but I do not know where to find them, etc. and thought the experts here might either know the answer or point me in the right direction.

I looked through old threads and see where some of our experts like @Lanyard Puller, @johan_steele, etc. have been able to pinpoint other Enfields with some success and am hoping they or anyone else might be able to assist in learning the history of this rifle.

Thank you!

View attachment 487666



View attachment 487667

I would reach out to Tim, but he most likely had everything in the Hindman listing. Tim, Lanyard Puller and a couple of others, secured most of the import records, before they were scattered to the winds on EBay.

The records are now in Columbia South Carolina Relic Room. They would have an idea, particularly Lanyard Puller, who already has a record of that number, no doubt. @Lanyard Puller

 

[bayonet]

Scooter were there any markings in the stock opposite the lock? I didn't notice you mentioning it.

 

[scooter748driver]

Scooter were there any markings in the stock opposite the lock? I didn't notice you mentioning it.

The Enfield arrived Friday evening, but as I had to work Saturday I didn't have much time to go over it in detail. I did note the it functions perfectly and does have the JS Anchor on the bottom of the stock.

I received a call saturday afternoon that resulted in me leaving for FL that night and I'm still dealing with that issue. The Enfield is safe in the safe at home and once I get back I'll give it a thorough review and post a new thread on it with pics.

 

[observator]

Anchor Made By British army?

 

[scooter748driver]

Anchor Made By British army?

Here's some info on the JS Anchor from a post late last year.

JS Anchor - what's it really mean? | Small Arms & Ammunition

I hope this isn't too much of a controversial topic (and I'll go ahead and apologize for the length of this post up front). I understand that it's been researched to death without anything that is 100% definitive, but I've been doing some reading on Kerr revolvers in several books and it's...

civilwartalk.com

 

[Old Soldier]

No government weapons were given/sold to either side. The guns were manufactured and proofed as civilian weapons. Those guns for the Confederacy were marked with John Southgate's JS / (ANCHOR) viewers' mark in the wood behind the trigger guardbefore they were boxed and exported. No other weapons ever bore that mark.

 

[Jeff in Ohio]

So since there is no inventory # on the buttstock of my EP BOND but 3 other CSA markings in the stock, I'll have to go with the CSA failed to make final payment so it went elsewhere quite possibly the Union?

None of those various markings show that a particular gun was paid for or actually shipped to the South.

 

[Old Soldier]

None of those various markings show that a particular gun was paid for or actually shipped to the South.

The nearest you can get is that it was made for the CS and marked in Britain before being boxed. Whether it was paid for, or whether it ended up in the CS is another matter.
This is what happened to shiploads of them:

Some were captured by the USN and some never left Nassau or St George in the Bahamas (the staging point for blockade-runners).
Unless it shows signs of use in the field, the best you can say is that it was a CS consignment.

 

[bayonet]

The nearest you can get is that it was made for the CS and marked in Britain before being boxed. Whether it was paid for, or whether it ended up in the CS is another matter.
This is what happened to shiploads of them:
View attachment 489381
Some were captured by the USN and some never left Nassau or St George in the Bahamas (the staging point for blockade-runners).
Unless it shows signs of use in the field, the best you can say is that it was a CS consignment.

well thank goodness it looks nothing like those

 

[bayonet]

None of those various markings show that a particular gun was paid for or actually shipped to the South.

yes as we discussed back in 3/13/2021 that you actually quoted in that thread. Inspected by the CSA Agents in UK and stamped so but no proof it made it to the CSA.

 

[Jeff in Ohio]

yes as we discussed back in 3/13/2021 that you actually quoted in that thread. Inspected by the CSA Agents in UK and stamped so but no proof it made it to the CSA.

I can remember what happened in 1860s but not what I posted in 2021

 

[Old Soldier]

Nice one, Jeff!