Tracking Enfield Inventory Number - help needed please

[scooter748driver]

I was fortunate enough to purchase a well-used Confederate P53 Enfield recently for what seemed (to me anyway) to be a decent price. Not great, but OK. I haven't received it as yet so I can only go by the online pics and description, but will post pics when I receive it.

The lock is marked E.P. Bond London in two lines. I do not see a crown on the lock. The stock has a faint JS Anchor but I do not know about the presence of a stock manufactures name. The top of the butt of the stock is marked with a capital B just forward to the butt plate. My understanding is that this B also designates it as being furnished by EP Bond. The top of the buttplate tang marked with the inventory number 8274.

That's a long introduction just to ask this:

Is there a way to determine when this particular rifle was shipped to and/or arrived in the Confederacy?

Knowing the ship it sailed on, the port it went to, etc. would be fantastic and amazing! I understand that some of the shipping invoices, etc. exist but I do not know where to find them, etc. and thought the experts here might either know the answer or point me in the right direction.

I looked through old threads and see where some of our experts like @Lanyard Puller, @johan_steele, etc. have been able to pinpoint other Enfields with some success and am hoping they or anyone else might be able to assist in learning the history of this rifle.

Thank you!

 

[MarkTK36thIL]

With Tim Prince probably doing the writeup, I'd wager he posted the most up to date info from multiple sources like the English Connection.

 

[Dbackfed29]

The write up was pretty comprehensive at Cowan's. If Tim didn't have that information, I reckon it's non-existent. Nice gun for the price.

 

[scooter748driver]

Thanks. I think I'll be happy with it for the price.

I'm not sure but I suspect that the background information provided on this Enfield was mainly collected from the internet. Searching for Enfield Inventory Number I came up with several hits linked to College Hill Arsenal (Tim Prince) where the generic background info on supplier, numbers supplied, etc. can be copied and pasted. I suspect that was the case here, but am open to the idea that Tim Prince personally inspected this rifle and did the write up.

Also think it doesn't hurt to ask as there are lots of other experts here who might have some info or a lead I can pursue.

 

[UCVRelics]

I was fortunate enough to purchase a well-used Confederate P53 Enfield recently for what seemed (to me anyway) to be a decent price. Not great, but OK. I haven't received it as yet so I can only go by the online pics and description, but will post pics when I receive it.

The lock is marked E.P. Bond London in two lines. I do not see a crown on the lock. The stock has a faint JS Anchor but I do not know about the presence of a stock manufactures name. The top of the butt of the stock is marked with a capital B just forward to the butt plate. My understanding is that this B also designates it as being furnished by EP Bond. The top of the buttplate tang marked with the inventory number 8274.

That's a long introduction just to ask this:

Is there a way to determine when this particular rifle was shipped to and/or arrived in the Confederacy?

Knowing the ship it sailed on, the port it went to, etc. would be fantastic and amazing! I understand that some of the shipping invoices, etc. exist but I do not know where to find them, etc. and thought the experts here might either know the answer or point me in the right direction.

I looked through old threads and see where some of our experts like @Lanyard Puller, @johan_steele, etc. have been able to pinpoint other Enfields with some success and am hoping they or anyone else might be able to assist in learning the history of this rifle.

Thank you!

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Nice Enfield. @Lanyard Puller has a lot of info on the Enfield serial # and the blockade runners they were shipped on.

 

[scooter748driver]

Thank you! I'm hoping he will have some information or insight on this rifle.

 

[johan_steele]

If Tim Prince did the write up it's gold. @Lanyard Puller may well have more information as might @Craig L Barry.

 

[OldSarge79]

While I can't tell you with certainty which blockade-runner brought yours over, I think it would be safe to eliminate the Bermuda from the possibilities. The English Connection, page 153 states that 1700 Enfields were brought by that ship in September 1861, and all probably had low numbers. Higher numbers would have been on vessels that arrived after that.

From Lifeline of the Confederacy, by Stephen R. Wise, page 53, referring to the vessel that followed the Bermuda:
"By October 8, 1861, Low was in Greenock watching the final loading of the Fingal. Her cargo consisted of about 11,000 rifles, mostly Enfields, 24,000 pounds of gunpowder, 500,000 cartridges, over a million percussion caps, two Blakely cannons, two smaller artillery pieces plus blankets, sabers and drugs."

Two thousand of the rifles were for the state of Georgia. The other 9,000 were for the Confederate government. If, as The English Connection indicates, the Bermuda delivered the first 1,700 Enfields, that would leave 8,300 first series numbered Enfields. That's fairly close to the the Fingal's 9,000 for the Confederate government. Speculation I know, but interesting to consider.
She unloaded her cargo at Savannah.

IF those Enfields were inventory numbered, and it seems likely that they were, the Fingal would be a very good bet.

My numbered Enfield is 8693, so it probably came over on the same vessel as yours did.

 

[Old Soldier]

Enfield rifles were not serialled on manufacture, only but receiving units/forces. The butt plate tang was the usual place for item numbers, regimental markings, etc, BUT NOT ALWAYS. This is a civilian contract rifle, but unusual in that it does not have the crown, but there are other EP Bonds like this. What are the barrel proof marks (photo?). If it bears a London mark, it may have the bore number '25' marked under the barrel as well as the barrel-maker. Stock makers names are usually marked in the barrel recess or in the ramrod channel. The JS/anchor mark is usually a sign for a Confederate import, but there are many forgeries out there.

 

[scooter748driver]

My understanding is that there were only about 30,000 1853 Enfields with inventory numbers and that they were applied after manufacture but upon inspection/receipt in England and before being shipped, not by the receiving units (unless you mean info such as regiment, rack number, etc.) I think they stopped the inventory numbering process as it caused a bottleneck in delivery to the Confederacy.

I believe almost all these 30,000 '53s had inventory numbers inscribed on the tang of the buttplate except for one make who marked the bottom of the buttplate instead. I believe there were some rifles with iron buttplates (not sure if they were Model 1853] that had to have the inventory number placed in the wood at the bottom of the shoulder stock due to the hardness of the iron.

The barrel proof appears to be London marks and a single 25 which I understand is correct. I haven't seen a picture of the JS Anchor but understand from the description it is faint but there. I'm convinced that this Enfield isn't a forgery.

Here is more info from the write up (by Tim Prince?):

The Confederate central government received 30,000 "Long Enfields" as part of the 2nd Sinclair, Hamilton & Company contract in the fall of 1861, with deliveries completed by the spring of the following year. These guns were inventory numbered on their buttplate tangs from 1 to 10,000 with the addition of the suffix "A" below the number for the guns in the second group of 10,000 and the suffix "B" for the guns in the third group of 10,000. This gun was part of the first 10,000 guns delivered under that contract as there is no suffix present.

A database of surviving Confederate numbered Enfields from this contract indicates that roughly 1% of the guns delivered are known to survive today, with approximately 300 in private and institutional collections. A total of 21 guns are known in the 8XXX range from that contract, with four of those being delivered by the London gunmaker E.P. Bond.

 

[Old Soldier]

Some research brings up the following facts. The number on the butt is the inventory number of the FIRST 10,000 rifles ordered from Sinclair, Hamilton & Co., an arms supplier in London, England. It will have been serialled before crating and shipment, probably not by Bond, but S,H&Co. as they contracted different suppliers. This first batch are the most common Confederate P53s. This number should also appear on the ramrod, if original.
Here is the JS Anchor:

As for survivors, here are reckoned to be about 1,000 , of which around 930 are from the first batch. Bear in mind that a number from the other batches were either lost at sea or captured by the Union Navy.

 

[Lanyard Puller]

Here's what is on a s/n list of Enfields for #8693;

" Pat.53 - TOWER/62 - JS/ANC - "J" furniture - 34" cut down -sold by Fred Edmonds

The other one mentioned #8274 is not on any of the 3 or 4 different s/n lists.

 

[bayonet]

Congrats I saw that auction item. Now correct me if I'm wrong since I read the above posts but was not the serial #s on the buttstock applied when it arrived on shores here and not in England? I posted about 2 or 3 years ago on my EP BOND Enfield and got updated great news. Some so called expert over 25 years ago said the markings were Union SHG but later here turned out to be SHC. It has no serial #s on the buttstock but 3 other markings to indicate CSA. The Musket is in very good condition so it was determined that it did not make it to the CSA due to seizure from a Blockade Runner or the CSA failed to make final payment even after the 3 applied markings so it was sold to the Union.

 

[scooter748driver]

Congrats I saw that auction item. Now correct me if I'm wrong since I read the above posts but was not the serial #s on the buttstock applied when it arrived on shores here and not in England? I posted about 2 or 3 years ago on my EP BOND Enfield and got updated great news. Some so called expert over 25 years ago said the markings were Union SHG but later here turned out to be SHC. It has no serial #s on the buttstock but 3 other markings to indicate CSA. The Musket is in very good condition so it was determined that it did not make it to the CSA due to seizure from a Blockade Runner or the CSA failed to make final payment even after the 3 applied markings so it was sold to the Union.

Thanks! I flagged it when I saw it and was shocked that I won it. I thought it would go for more than it did.

From what I've read in The English Connection and The Confederate Enfield the inventory numbers were applied in England prior to shipping. There are some papers/manifests in those books showing the inventory numbers for the rifles in each crate I believe.

 

[UCVRelics]

Here's what is on a s/n list of Enfields for #8693;

" Pat.53 - TOWER/62 - JS/ANC - "J" furniture - 34" cut down -sold by Fred Edmonds

The other one mentioned #8274 is not on any of the 3 or 4 different s/n lists.

From all the ones Ive seen I believe the font of the numbers tells a lot. Could you post a few known imported numbers.

 

[scooter748driver]

If Tim Prince did the write up it's gold. @Lanyard Puller may well have more information as might @Craig L Barry.

I stand corrected on my previous post about where the information on the write up for this rifle came from.

I sent an email to Mr. Prince on the off chance he may have done the write up, but not really expecting an answer. Imagine my total shock when he replied and confirmed that, yes, he did inspect and do the write up of this Enfield. He also shared some great background information that helps me better understand that my quest for specifics on when, who, where etc, of this rifle are lost to time.

Despite that, I could not be happier to know Tim Prince inspected and vetted this rifle. I've saved both the auction write-up and his kind email to keep with this rifle. I agree with @johan_steele, it's gold and, given some information he shared, leaves zero doubt or suspicion that this rifle is the real deal. Wow, I'm still in shock.

I paid the invoice today so with luck I will have the Enfield in hand in a week or two. I'll be sure to post pics in a new thread when I get it.

Thank you to all for your help, feedback, and information!

 

[Old Soldier]

Congrats I saw that auction item. Now correct me if I'm wrong since I read the above posts but was not the serial #s on the buttstock applied when it arrived on shores here and not in England? I posted about 2 or 3 years ago on my EP BOND Enfield and got updated great news. Some so called expert over 25 years ago said the markings were Union SHG but later here turned out to be SHC. It has no serial #s on the buttstock but 3 other markings to indicate CSA. The Musket is in very good condition so it was determined that it did not make it to the CSA due to seizure from a Blockade Runner or the CSA failed to make final payment even after the 3 applied markings so it was sold to the Union.

If you look at the other examples, you will see that they were done with a similar type, in exactly the same place. They were probably serialised before transit to prevent any 'losses' through being sold on (at a profit!) by the shippers, which may well have happened if they were unmarked. These were bought and paid for by Caleb Huse, the Confederate procurement officer!

From what I can gather, the anchor JS was the mark of one John Southgate, a trained viewer (inspector) of weapons from the London Armory Company, who would travel periodically to Birmingham, England, to inspect arms purchased for the Confederacy before they were packed and shipped to the CSA. Southgate's initials, J S, were used as the upper portion of the stamp. The lower portion, the anchor, was drawn directly from Birmingham's own Assay Office and was probably intended to convey the assurance of quality - like any other inspector's stamp.

The SHC stamp (two types) was their own inspection mark and is also seen on weapons including Pattern 1858 Sea Service rifles - often mistaken for the short rifle (2-band) - and carbines supplied to the Confederate forces as well as others sold to the Union.

 

[Old Soldier]

From all the ones Ive seen I believe the font of the numbers tells a lot. Could you post a few known imported numbers.

Looks good to me:

They are all engraved by hand and will vary with who was doing the work. Numbering 200+ a week is a team effort. These were all numbered before they were boxed up in Britain in Birmingham or possibly Liverpool (port of storing and loading). I am researching the British end of this trade. Yours was 'made' by E.P.Bond (London) - the firm that assembled the parts from sub-contractors - hence the 'B' on the wood above the number. The 'JS over anchor' was never heavily stamped and is often well gone. Yours will from the national order, not the states (GA = 'G' on the right butt, SC - 'SC' same place. but will also have serials)

Stockmaker's name is either under the butt, in the barrel bed or in the ramrod channel just before the lower band. The number was also stamped on the original ramrod and bayonet. If it matches ... but don't bet on it - they were often swapped around..

 

[bayonet]

So since there is no inventory # on the buttstock of my EP BOND but 3 other CSA markings in the stock, I'll have to go with the CSA failed to make final payment so it went elsewhere quite possibly the Union?

 

[OldSarge79]

So since there is no inventory # on the buttstock of my EP BOND but 3 other CSA markings in the stock, I'll have to go with the CSA failed to make final payment so it went elsewhere quite possibly the Union?

Actually, they only numbered the first 21,000 or so, as numbering the butt plate, ramrod and bayonet was too time-consuming. They completed the first series of 10,000, as well as the second series of 10,000 (with an A suffix) and started the B-series, but apparently never finished engraving that 10,000 as few numbered Enfields with a B suffix are known to exist today.
After that, various other markings were stamped onto the guns, JS/Anchor, Anchor/S, I.C., SHC and others. Many more beyond those are believed to have been loaded onto blockade runners as well, without Confederate markings.

If you have an Enfield with Confederate markings, it was Confederate-purchased. Some that were captured on blockade runners were known to be issued to Union troops, with at least some of those being marked as such, but generally speaking, Confederate markings alone may be considered solidly Confederate.