Toughest Brigade

[Zack]

What was difference between a Union soldier and a regular?

I shoulda probably said "volunteer"

 

[Saphroneth]

In principle, the difference between the regular army units and the volunteers could have been quite significant. The pre war US regulars had a complement of experienced NCOs, and even with a lot of the field grade officers taking up brigade or division level commands (or higher) there was still the possibility for those experienced NCOs to help ensure better training quality and make the regular army significantly steadier, better skilled and better drilled than a volunteer unit (on top of how many men in regular army units had pre-war training).

In practice, this mostly showed up as better discipline in the units which had existed already before the opening of the war, and the pre-war army had been too small to make this significant on a battlefield. The newly raised units (such as the 11th-19th infantry) were never fully constituted and in any case lacked that experienced core that the pre-existing units had, while the pre-existing units were valuable despite their small size (and were in some cases used as provost because of their better discipline, as they could be relied upon) but it wasn't really practical to have even a single full brigade of pre-war regulars on any given battlefield - they were simply lost in a sea of volunteers and hostilities-regulars.

(This mostly covers infantry. The cavalry was somewhat better and appears to have been able to conduct charges from the start, which took the volunteer cavalry a couple of years, but the cavalry was not equipped with carbines until late 1862 and so needed infantry support. By the point carbines were on general issue, there was enough cavalry around that again the regulars sort of vanished into the accounting, though they often provided HQ guards and consequently messengers.)

 

[streetwiseprof]

You have to establish a position and hold the ground at all costs... what brigade do you call on?

Iron Brigade
Stonewall Brigade
Pennsylvania Reserves
Texas Brigade
Irish Brigade (US)


Etc...

What was the best brigade?

I say the Confederate Missouri brigade, hands down. I can't believe you left that off your list!

 

[lurid]

I forgot about Sherman's Midwest boys on their March to the Sea, which was a reconnaissance mission severed from the supply line. Hmm, camping out and living off the land behind enemy lines would be a hard a mission, which would require tenacity. I would go with the Iron Brigade and Sherman's Midwest boys as the toughest brigades.

 

[Cavalier]

To my mind, inadequate as it often is, the measure of a bride's toughness, or any other formation for that matter, would be it's ability to sustain substantial percentages of casualties and still function effectively on the battlefield.

John

 

[Pollaco]

The book, "The Civil War Book of Lists", lists the top 10 Confederate brigades and the top 10 Union brigades. Hood's Texas Brigade is #1 on the Confederate side and the 1st Vermont is #1 on the Union side.

 

[reading48]

In my opinion there were no toughest brigades/regiments ... they were ordered to hold the line to the last man and they did so.
1st Minnesota at Gettysburg Barksdale's Confederate men charging The 1st Minnesota with 83% casualties stopped his charge
Barksdale died there The Hummelbaugh Farm

 

[Saphroneth]

I forgot about Sherman's Midwest boys on their March to the Sea, which was a reconnaissance mission severed from the supply line. Hmm, camping out and living off the land behind enemy lines would be a hard a mission, which would require tenacity. I would go with the Iron Brigade and Sherman's Midwest boys as the toughest brigades.

...I think that's an army, not a brigade.

 

[Cavalier]

@reading48 Just an opinion and I'm no expert but I don't think the 1st. Minnesota stoped Barksdale's brigade at Gettysburg. If I'm not mistaken that honor belonged to Willard's Brigade, the "Harper's Ferry Cowards".

And the 1st. Minnesota was assisted by the 111th. New York in their most gallant action I believe.

John

 

[SgtDarby8OVI]

I am stunned that no one has mentioned the Gibraltar Brigade in the Army of the Potomac's 2nd Corps. Made up of the 8th and 4th Ohio, 7th West Virginia, and 14th Indiana, this veteran brigade played a key role in the Union victory against Jackson's vaunted army at the Battle of Kernstown (2nd Winchester). As part of French's division in the AOP, it occupied the ridge in front of the Sunken Road at Antietam longer than any other attacking unit. At Gettysburg, three of its regiments held off the Confederate onslaught against East Cemetery Hill in the twilight of July 2nd, while the 8th Ohio single-handedly flanked, enfiladed, and routed much of Brockenborough's brigade from its advance position on the Emmittsburg Road on July 3rd. Numerous regimental monuments on both battlefields testify to the brigade's toughness on defense and its ability to inflict damage on the enemy when ordered to attack. Hurrah for the Bully Gibraltar Brigade!

 

[steve59p]

I am stunned that no one has mentioned the Gibraltar Brigade in the Army of the Potomac's 2nd Corps. Made up of the 8th and 4th Ohio, 7th West Virginia, and 14th Indiana, this veteran brigade played a key role in the Union victory against Jackson's vaunted army at the Battle of Kernstown (2nd Winchester). As part of French's division in the AOP, it occupied the ridge in front of the Sunken Road at Antietam longer than any other attacking unit. At Gettysburg, three of its regiments held off the Confederate onslaught against East Cemetery Hill in the twilight of July 2nd, while the 8th Ohio single-handedly flanked, enfiladed, and routed much of Brockenborough's brigade from its advance position on the Emmittsburg Road on July 3rd. Numerous regimental monuments on both battlefields testify to the brigade's toughness on defense and its ability to inflict damage on the enemy when ordered to attack. Hurrah for the Bully Gibraltar Brigade!

Never heard of it before although not a massive knowledge of the USCW as a foreigner. How did it get its name please? Coming from a location in the union called Gibraltar or something else?

 

[Saphroneth]

Never heard of it before although not a massive knowledge of the USCW as a foreigner. How did it get its name please? Coming from a location in the union called Gibraltar or something else?

It's cultural appropriation is what it is. They were "as steady as the Rock of Gibraltar" basically.

 

[GwilymT]

Never heard of it before although not a massive knowledge of the USCW as a foreigner. How did it get its name please? Coming from a location in the union called Gibraltar or something else?

They were named after the "Rock of Gibraltar" because they were unmovable, hard as a rock.

 

[steve59p]

Guys

OK thanks for clarifying. I did wonder if it might relate to that.

Steve