HF The Rain Crow

[JulieWeathers]

I'm not sure where this is supposed to be or if it is supposed to be, but perhaps someone needs this advice.

I've been working on a Civil War novel for some time. It's done and I am in the revision stage.

I had been submitting to agents, but no luck. It is told from the wrong side of the fence as someone said as it's the story of a woman who becomes a spy for the Confederacy.

So, I decided to send the first three chapters to a developmental editor and do the best I could with it before sending it to university publishers. If I liked the way she handled it, I'd send her the rest of it.

I got it back and laughed. Because...a few years ago I took the opening to the Surrey International Writers' Conference and had a blue pencil session with a famous author whose historical novels have been turned into a television series. She read it and added a semicolon and a comma and told me to stop screwing around with it. It was perfect the way it was. Now, disclaimer, she's read bits and pieces of my work before, so she's familiar with it, but she hadn't read the opening before.

However, my beta readers felt I should introduce the love interest sooner and after much discussion, I caved and added a new first chapter.

Lo, here comes the developmental editor.

"Ditch the first chapter and start with the second. That's where it really gets interesting. Weave that other stuff in through the story."

I laughed.

So, I am back to:

My hair was pinned up neatly off my neck as might befit a woman bound for execution. I wasn't. Bankers can't kill me. They can only steal my property, though for a woman of the land, that would be as good as death.

I guess the whole point is, sometimes trust your gut.

 

[Stbrd]

I'm not sure I'm reading your post right ~~ were literary agents indifferent because they thought the main character was on the wrong side of the fence? Or was it your hook & starting point?

Historical is a hard sell as it is ~~ which is why I lean toward high-concept ~~ but the idea that a manuscript is shuffed aside on the basis of 'being on the wrong side' is definitely disconcerting.

 

[JulieWeathers]

I'm not sure I'm reading your post right ~~ were literary agents indifferent because they thought the main character was on the wrong side of the fence? Or was it your hook & starting point?

Historical is a hard sell as it is ~~ which is why I lean toward high-concept ~~ but the idea that a manuscript is shuffed aside on the basis of 'being on the wrong side' is definitely disconcerting.

Brodie,

A beta reader on a litforum who had read some excerpts said, "I'd really like this story if it weren't told from the wrong side of the fence."

Agents who had previously told me they wanted the book are now no longer interested. It was amusing because I had two arguing over who had read Gone With The Wind most and who wanted it more. Times and political climates change.

As for the hook and starting point, I was confident with where I was, but some beta readers wanted to introduce the love interest sooner, so I changed it. Then an editor got hold of it and said, "Nope, this is where your story starts." I was back to the original beginning. I liked that one better anyway. It was stronger and dove into the problems facing the main character sooner.

Anyway, I liked the first editor, but she was off a bit on some things so a friend who has a small publishing company recommended two other editors. I normally wouldn't go to an editor before submitting to agents, but this was going to be a tough sell and it was way over suggested word count. I needed help. I found one who looked at 5,000 words from the middle of the book. Showed me what she would have done in edit and told me what she thought of the story from what she saw. We were on the same page, so I struck a deal.

I should have edit back from her by April 10. Then, I think I need to find a Civil War buff to read to make sure details read true. I've had to change a few things to get the puzzle pieces to fall into place with the story, but I don't like manipulating history and historical characters much. As Diana Gabaldon of Outlander fame says, "You're writing a novel, not a historical documentary. Do the best you can." I had two, but life has them by the throat, so back to the drawing board.

Anyway, delayed and wordy response to your question. My apologies.

Thank you for responding.

Julie

 

[Stbrd]

I'm glad to hear it was a beta reader and not an agent. I wonder if the beta would have said the same to Charles Frazier ~ would they have liked the story better if Inman was from the other side of the fence?

I know a smidge about agents. My late literary agent was also my writing partner. Agents need to sell to pay the bills. They need properties with legs in the market, and that gives them the best chance at making a sale. The market has always been tough. It is even tougher now, but the thing is, no one really knows what will resonate with readers. Yes, historical fiction is a hard sell. The Civil War is a hard sell, but that doesn't mean it can't sell, so I hope the two agents who were interested in your work reconsider.

It sounds as if you might be having too many beta jumps ~~ and sometimes betas mean well with their feedback, but it creates second-guessing for the writer, and that creates story muddle. It happens to us all. We crawl into our heads with some feedback and start switching things up, or fall into a creative straitjacket.

Hooks matter. Start points matter. If you don't rattlesnake it and grab the attention of the reader, they will move on, and I'm not sure I'd be immediately engaged in a story tipping off a love interest right from the start.

I agree with Gabaldon -- and I saw how H worked. He would quickly reject the majority of historicals because:
- The history got in the way of the story
- Research dumps
- Lack of historical content
_ Wooden dialogue, pass the salt lines, and flowery period speak
- No plot or characterization, just scenes attached to a specific time in history.

I love history. I love research rabbit holes. I like to know everything within the context of a scene, and I know most of what I learn won't be used. That is my writing process. Admittedly, I never expected to write another story rooted in the time of the Civil War, but the first draft is finished, and I'm letting it sit while I finish another project. The thing is, after all the research, I still wanted to learn more, and that is why I joined this forum.

I also think that is the power of storytelling. Writers/readers, it doesn't matter. If it opens up the doors and pulls others into a world/subject they would have never explored otherwise, I think that's gold.

Not wordy at all, and thank you for answering because I cringed when I thought an agent had said it -- I thought wait, what?

 

[JulieWeathers]

I'm glad to hear it was a beta reader and not an agent. I wonder if the beta would have said the same to Charles Frazier ~ would they have liked the story better if Inman was from the other side of the fence?

I know a smidge about agents. My late literary agent was also my writing partner. Agents need to sell to pay the bills. They need properties with legs in the market, and that gives them the best chance at making a sale. The market has always been tough. It is even tougher now, but the thing is, no one really knows what will resonate with readers. Yes, historical fiction is a hard sell. The Civil War is a hard sell, but that doesn't mean it can't sell, so I hope the two agents who were interested in your work reconsider.

It sounds as if you might be having too many beta jumps ~~ and sometimes betas mean well with their feedback, but it creates second-guessing for the writer, and that creates story muddle. It happens to us all. We crawl into our heads with some feedback and start switching things up, or fall into a creative straitjacket.

Hooks matter. Start points matter. If you don't rattlesnake it and grab the attention of the reader, they will move on, and I'm not sure I'd be immediately engaged in a story tipping off a love interest right from the start.

I agree with Gabaldon -- and I saw how H worked. He would quickly reject the majority of historicals because:
- The history got in the way of the story
- Research dumps
- Lack of historical content
_ Wooden dialogue, pass the salt lines, and flowery period speak
- No plot or characterization, just scenes attached to a specific time in history.

I love history. I love research rabbit holes. I like to know everything within the context of a scene, and I know most of what I learn won't be used. That is my writing process. Admittedly, I never expected to write another story rooted in the time of the Civil War, but the first draft is finished, and I'm letting it sit while I finish another project. The thing is, after all the research, I still wanted to learn more, and that is why I joined this forum.

I also think that is the power of storytelling. Writers/readers, it doesn't matter. If it opens up the doors and pulls others into a world/subject they would have never explored otherwise, I think that's gold.

Not wordy at all, and thank you for answering because I cringed when I thought an agent had said it -- I thought wait, what?

I'm not sure how I missed this reply. I am so sorry.

Years ago I read a story that was based in period France. It mentioned how servants cleaned the floors and a "new" rule was passed that halls must be cleaned of feces at least once a week. Eeew

As, yuck as that is, it adds an interesting tidbit to a story and could be used skillfully by the right writer.

Admittedly, I never expected to write another story rooted in the time of the Civil War, but the first draft is finished, and I'm letting it sit while I finish another project. The thing is, after all the research, I still wanted to learn more, and that is why I joined this forum.

I hope you finished your story and you're right about this forum. I made the mistake of buying Nord VPN and it reset somehow and turned into a nightmare. I had to log back in constantly and if I didn't, I couldn't get access to several sites, including this one. I finally uninstalled it just to get back here.

Trust me, I made a page with passwords, which probably isn't wise, but I no longer trust programs to save me.

 

[Stbrd]

Interesting fact. Never heard about that, and it is one to tuck away. Thanks for sharing!

What's the status of your project? Hopefully you've got the first chapter all sorted out and great line with hair pinned up!

As previously stated, I never thought I'd write another CW story because my first CW story crashed and burned. Producers took the script to the studio with talent attached and the studio couldn't say no quick enough. Same thing happened with the second option. That script was story kryptonite. LOL

Note to self: don't write historical fiction. The muse had other ideas. While writing a different story, a CW scene flashed in my mind and was followed by a spontaneous story avalanche. Okay, back to the CW only skip the script and write it as a novel.

I sent the first draft off to my writing core, held my breath and hoped I didn't screw it up too much (one of them has a deep passion for all things CW) Got the feedback, need to buff up here, be more specific there, but it didn't tank. Currently, I'm layering the story, focusing on sensory details, and connecting all the setup/payoff micro-moments.

Regarding authenticity and history ~ while research and accuracy are important to me as a writer, a compelling story always comes first. I think of it this way: do you want readers to feel like they're sitting around a campfire and listening to a story, or an over-detailed lecture.

I worked with a writer who felt the need to do extensive research and insert everything he learned into the story. That created pacing/structural issues along with a lot of clutter. The word count kept moving up because he was set dressing, describing every single movement/action, and info dumping. He hit a wall with writer's block, prompting our meeting to hopefully help him rediscover his love and passion for his story. It was still there, but it was all knotted up in the fear of not doing/writing his story right and making mistakes.

It's hard to maintain balance between story and historical accuracy. I see both points of view, but, personally, I'd rather readers remember the story and characters than the accuracy of my research.

On a positive note, some writers and I were recently discussing the increasing popularity of historical-genre infusion, so it would be great if historical also gains traction. I would love to see more CW fiction popping high on the lists.

 

[13 IL Cav & 64 GA Inf]

I'm not sure where this is supposed to be or if it is supposed to be, but perhaps someone needs this advice.

I've been working on a Civil War novel for some time. It's done and I am in the revision stage.

I had been submitting to agents, but no luck. It is told from the wrong side of the fence as someone said as it's the story of a woman who becomes a spy for the Confederacy.

So, I decided to send the first three chapters to a developmental editor and do the best I could with it before sending it to university publishers. If I liked the way she handled it, I'd send her the rest of it.

I got it back and laughed. Because...a few years ago I took the opening to the Surrey International Writers' Conference and had a blue pencil session with a famous author whose historical novels have been turned into a television series. She read it and added a semicolon and a comma and told me to stop screwing around with it. It was perfect the way it was. Now, disclaimer, she's read bits and pieces of my work before, so she's familiar with it, but she hadn't read the opening before.

However, my beta readers felt I should introduce the love interest sooner and after much discussion, I caved and added a new first chapter.

Lo, here comes the developmental editor.

"Ditch the first chapter and start with the second. That's where it really gets interesting. Weave that other stuff in through the story."

I laughed.

So, I am back to:

My hair was pinned up neatly off my neck as might befit a woman bound for execution. I wasn't. Bankers can't kill me. They can only steal my property, though for a woman of the land, that would be as good as death.

I guess the whole point is, sometimes trust your gut.

I totally agree with "trust your gut." I practically fought with the editor and ended up only changing two sentences in my Rev. War historical fiction novel. Do it YOUR way. It's the best way.

 

[JulieWeathers]

I totally agree with "trust your gut." I practically fought with the editor and ended up only changing two sentences in my Rev. War historical fiction novel. Do it YOUR way. It's the best way.

Thank you, and I agree. I may have missed it, what is the name of your book?

 

[JulieWeathers]

Interesting fact. Never heard about that, and it is one to tuck away. Thanks for sharing!

What's the status of your project? Hopefully you've got the first chapter all sorted out and great line with hair pinned up!

As previously stated, I never thought I'd write another CW story because my first CW story crashed and burned. Producers took the script to the studio with talent attached and the studio couldn't say no quick enough. Same thing happened with the second option. That script was story kryptonite. LOL

Note to self: don't write historical fiction. The muse had other ideas. While writing a different story, a CW scene flashed in my mind and was followed by a spontaneous story avalanche. Okay, back to the CW only skip the script and write it as a novel.

I sent the first draft off to my writing core, held my breath and hoped I didn't screw it up too much (one of them has a deep passion for all things CW) Got the feedback, need to buff up here, be more specific there, but it didn't tank. Currently, I'm layering the story, focusing on sensory details, and connecting all the setup/payoff micro-moments.

Regarding authenticity and history ~ while research and accuracy are important to me as a writer, a compelling story always comes first. I think of it this way: do you want readers to feel like they're sitting around a campfire and listening to a story, or an over-detailed lecture.

I worked with a writer who felt the need to do extensive research and insert everything he learned into the story. That created pacing/structural issues along with a lot of clutter. The word count kept moving up because he was set dressing, describing every single movement/action, and info dumping. He hit a wall with writer's block, prompting our meeting to hopefully help him rediscover his love and passion for his story. It was still there, but it was all knotted up in the fear of not doing/writing his story right and making mistakes.

It's hard to maintain balance between story and historical accuracy. I see both points of view, but, personally, I'd rather readers remember the story and characters than the accuracy of my research.

On a positive note, some writers and I were recently discussing the increasing popularity of historical-genre infusion, so it would be great if historical also gains traction. I would love to see more CW fiction popping high on the lists.

Oh, my gosh.

It's hard not to want to add every fascinating detail you find into your story, but you simply can't. That being said, the editor often commented that while I understood what life was like back then, I should go into more detail about why people did things a certain way or describe setting more.

I'm always afraid of murking down things and drifting into purple prose territory. Not that there is much chance of that with me because I write plain vanilla.

Joanna Bourne wrote historical romances set during Revolutionary and Napoleonic France. Her attention to historical details are lovely. There's just enough to ground you in the world without taking you out of the story. It's a difficult dance.

Someone suggested chatgpt to read for historical innacuracies. It's pretty good on a lot of things, but I still double check it. It had the wrong general at Fairfax Court-House in July 1861 and I had to correct it.

I think I need to find a retired history teacher. Or not. I wonder about that also.

Did your friend get back on track?

As to Rain Crow. I'm doubled checking dates now and sending to the editor and publisher this weekend. My calendar I was using had Easter in April in 1861. It wasn't. It was in March. Now I am checking everything to make sure everything else is right.

Thanks for the comments and reminders. Story is king.

Julie

 

[13 IL Cav & 64 GA Inf]

Thank you, and I agree. I may have missed it, what is the name of your book?

It's "Over The Mountains To Freedom," about the Overmountain Men. I should have named it "Over The Mountains To Fight," but hindsight is wonderful, of course.

 

[DixieRifles]

I was intrigued by the title. It doesnt have ending with Crows as in "Cold Mountain??

 

[JulieWeathers]

I was intrigued by the title. It doesnt have ending with Crows as in "Cold Mountain??

Oh, I laughed. No, Rain Crows give an unmistakable kawing call to their mates before a rain. In my story, she's riding out to meet a spymaster who's trying to recruit her and she hears the rain crows just before the thunderstorm hits. All the spies in this ring go by bird names, so they decide to call her the rain crow.

 

[JulieWeathers]

It's "Over The Mountains To Freedom," about the Overmountain Men. I should have named it "Over The Mountains To Fight," but hindsight is wonderful, of course.

Bought, I may refer to it on the Litforum if the chance arises after I read it.

 

[DixieRifles]

No, Rain Crows give an unmistakable kawing call to their mates before a rain.

I googled it. "Rain Crows" are actually Yellow-Billed Cuckoo. Easily mistaken for a Mourning Dove.

I prefer the title "Rain Crows" over "Yellow-Billed Cuckoo".

 

[Stbrd]

Oh, my gosh.

It's hard not to want to add every fascinating detail you find into your story, but you simply can't. That being said, the editor often commented that while I understood what life was like back then, I should go into more detail about why people did things a certain way or describe setting more.

I'm always afraid of murking down things and drifting into purple prose territory. Not that there is much chance of that with me because I write plain vanilla.

Joanna Bourne wrote historical romances set during Revolutionary and Napoleonic France. Her attention to historical details are lovely. There's just enough to ground you in the world without taking you out of the story. It's a difficult dance.

Someone suggested chatgpt to read for historical innacuracies. It's pretty good on a lot of things, but I still double check it. It had the wrong general at Fairfax Court-House in July 1861 and I had to correct it.

I think I need to find a retired history teacher. Or not. I wonder about that also.

Did your friend get back on track?

As to Rain Crow. I'm doubled checking dates now and sending to the editor and publisher this weekend. My calendar I was using had Easter in April in 1861. It wasn't. It was in March. Now I am checking everything to make sure everything else is right.

Thanks for the comments and reminders. Story is king.

Julie

Go into more detail about why people did things a certain way. Was this in reference to layering up the characters or their motivation?

I understand threading all the interesting details. I like getting lost in the rabbit holes of research. I will even tangent research, but 90% of what I research won't end up in the final draft. The characters' journey through the story is key for me, although you're right. It is a difficult dance. I'm a pantser. I plan nothing. It begins with an image, a random line of dialogue, or a character. First, a rough draft; then, a more detailed first draft where I layer in specific research ~ what is needed, what isn't. For example, I needed the protagonist to encounter a Confederate captain in the woods. Both are following tracks. They meet again, only this time the Captain notices cloth strips wrapped around the protag's wrists - a detail absent from their previous meeting. I discussed this scenario with someone who has a lot more knowledge about the CW than I do. We talked about camp placement. Was this feasible for the two to cross paths? How could it happen? What regiments? Should it be a specific battle? No. The scene doesn't require details about regiments or a specific battle. While I briefly touch on details about terrain and uniforms/weapons the purpose is to showcase the tracks, the cloth-bound wrists, and what that cloth represents. Could I flesh it fat with details? Sure. Would those details enhance the scene? Probably not.

Purple prose. Every time I read that, I flip it into Prince's 'Purple Rain' ~~ purple prose, purple prose. Now I have an earworm. LOL And nothing wrong with vanilla.

Not much of a romance reader, but will check out Joanna's work. The Napoleonic era has always been intriguing.

Not sure about ChatGP. Haven't tried it ~

About getting back on the writing track ~~ we rewound it to the beginning. Why did you want to write this story? Nothing else matters, just tell me the story. His passion for writing returned gradually, but it took time and effort to overcome the fear of making mistakes and shaking free of the "you have to do it this way" choir.

Like the title Rain Crow. It pops!

 

[JulieWeathers]

Was this in reference to layering up the characters or their motivation?

One of my failures is not putting enough internals in. Letting the readers in to what the character is thinking or feeling. Like the purple prose thing, I worry about veering off into navel gazing, which I despise. I don't write literary where we are with a character for forty pages while they ponder paint drying.

In this instance, I had to dance a line. I had to explain the politics going on behind the scenes leading up to the Civil War and Manassas (Bull Run) without making it sound like a history lesson. As they say, not doing an "As you know Bob..." "As you know, Bob, our parents passed away three years ago and I accused you of killing our pet goldfish, too!"

You have to find a way to reveal details without having characters give speeches about things other characters would already know.

I had a scene after Manassas where one of the main characters is looking for one of his missing men and spies a vivandiere. Most people aren't going to understand what a vivandiere is, so how do you get the idea across without an "As you know, Bob" moment.

So, this is what I did. It explains vivandiere, and it gives us an idea what he's thinking.

She drew herself up straighter. "I'm a vivandiere. I became separated from my unit in the confusion and stayed to help."

Baron pulled out a cigar and lit it, studying her face briefly in the golden glow. She was too young to be out here alone. Hell, no woman had any business being here, nurse or not. "You've got more starch than most of your Federals."

I will even tangent research, but 90% of what I research won't end up in the final draft.

True, Hemingway said the same thing. A good story is like an iceberg. "—your reader will see only what is above the water—but the knowledge that you have about your character that never makes it into the story acts as the bulk of the iceberg. And that is what gives your story weight and gravitas."

Never regret your research, but the readers don't need to know everything.

While I briefly touch on details about terrain and uniforms/weapons the purpose is to showcase the tracks, the cloth-bound wrists, and what that cloth represents. Could I flesh it fat with details? Sure. Would those details enhance the scene? Probably not.

It might be interesting, though. I have a sign above my desk: "Whiskey, because no great story ever started with someone eating salad."

We were discussing this on the LitForum and now a few are pondering how to write an interesting scene starting out with someone eating salad. I did, in a book we shan't discuss here.

Someone else mentioned in an offhand manner that it's impossible to write an interesting scene with someone f@rting. Diana Gabaldon took it as a challenge and it's a hilarious scene.

So, my point is, maybe no one needs to know about the cloth-bound wrists, but you never know.

'Purple Rain' ~~ purple prose, purple prose.

Why do you do this to me?

Jo's books are romance, but the protagonists are spies, so it's a lot more than bodice ripping. The beginning of Forbidden Rose.

"YOU HAVE NOT BEEN FOOLISH," SHE SAID. "BUT YOU have been unlucky. The results are indistinguishable."

The rabbit said nothing. It lay on its side, panting. Terror poured from it in waves, like water going down the steps of a fountain.

The protagonist is a noble woman who is also a spy. She's barely escaped the mob burning her chateau. She starving and has managed to snare a rabbit.

It's a great way to start a story.

"you have to do it this way"

Diana Gabaldon is a pantser, like we are.

She writes in chunks and they just all fall into place when the time is right.

She was on a panel at a writing conference and one of the authors was aghast when Diana said she never outlines. The woman said, "You have to. You need to build your foundation before you build your house."

Diana, "Why? I'm building this house in my mind. I can build the roof first if I want to. It's not physical. There is no right and wrong way to write. There is only what works for you."

Your friend needs to stop listening to "the experts" and find what works for him. He's lucky to have a friend like you.

Like the title Rain Crow. It pops!

Thank you. Good luck with the writing.

JW

 

[Stbrd]

One of my failures is not putting enough internals in. Letting the readers in to what the character is thinking or feeling. Like the purple prose thing, I worry about veering off into navel gazing, which I despise. I don't write literary where we are with a character for forty pages while they ponder paint drying.

In this instance, I had to dance a line. I had to explain the politics going on behind the scenes leading up to the Civil War and Manassas (Bull Run) without making it sound like a history lesson. As they say, not doing an "As you know Bob..." "As you know, Bob, our parents passed away three years ago and I accused you of killing our pet goldfish, too!"

You have to find a way to reveal details without having characters give speeches about things other characters would already know.

I had a scene after Manassas where one of the main characters is looking for one of his missing men and spies a vivandiere. Most people aren't going to understand what a vivandiere is, so how do you get the idea across without an "As you know, Bob" moment.

So, this is what I did. It explains vivandiere, and it gives us an idea what he's thinking.

She drew herself up straighter. "I'm a vivandiere. I became separated from my unit in the confusion and stayed to help."

Baron pulled out a cigar and lit it, studying her face briefly in the golden glow. She was too young to be out here alone. Hell, no woman had any business being here, nurse or not. "You've got more starch than most of your Federals."


True, Hemingway said the same thing. A good story is like an iceberg. "—your reader will see only what is above the water—but the knowledge that you have about your character that never makes it into the story acts as the bulk of the iceberg. And that is what gives your story weight and gravitas."

Never regret your research, but the readers don't need to know everything.



It might be interesting, though. I have a sign above my desk: "Whiskey, because no great story ever started with someone eating salad."

We were discussing this on the LitForum and now a few are pondering how to write an interesting scene starting out with someone eating salad. I did, in a book we shan't discuss here.

Someone else mentioned in an offhand manner that it's impossible to write an interesting scene with someone f@rting. Diana Gabaldon took it as a challenge and it's a hilarious scene.

So, my point is, maybe no one needs to know about the cloth-bound wrists, but you never know.



Why do you do this to me?

Jo's books are romance, but the protagonists are spies, so it's a lot more than bodice ripping. The beginning of Forbidden Rose.

"YOU HAVE NOT BEEN FOOLISH," SHE SAID. "BUT YOU have been unlucky. The results are indistinguishable."

The rabbit said nothing. It lay on its side, panting. Terror poured from it in waves, like water going down the steps of a fountain.

The protagonist is a noble woman who is also a spy. She's barely escaped the mob burning her chateau. She starving and has managed to snare a rabbit.

It's a great way to start a story.



Diana Gabaldon is a pantser, like we are.

She writes in chunks and they just all fall into place when the time is right.

She was on a panel at a writing conference and one of the authors was aghast when Diana said she never outlines. The woman said, "You have to. You need to build your foundation before you build your house."

Diana, "Why? I'm building this house in my mind. I can build the roof first if I want to. It's not physical. There is no right and wrong way to write. There is only what works for you."

Your friend needs to stop listening to "the experts" and find what works for him. He's lucky to have a friend like you.



Thank you. Good luck with the writing.

JW

Details suck me in: Her face briefly in the golden glow. Nice. Tight follow up line about nurse or not.

My brain goes right into Mah Na Mah Na mode when narrative is bogged down by excessive introspection, over-descriptive, character introduction dumps, or dialogue that is formal or over-constructed without a natural rhythm. And you're right about the Bobbing!


About research:

I have moss from the Battle of Gettysburg and squiggles from Jeff Davis' home. Maybe the squiggles are moss. I'm not a botanist so I don't know. There is also part of a magnolia blossom from the White House, clippings from National Cemetery Gettysburg, and I think Eljiah Lovejoy's grave among other flora. All of this is tucked away inside a Victorian pressed botanical album. Dates of collected specimens range from, I believe, 1860-1889 (?) The collector visited historic as well as contemporary locations (for them), snipped bits of plants/flowers and pasted them into a scrapbook. There are botanical samples from other countries as well. It is a fragile yet fascinating. I can, literally, touch the past. I also have a grouping of small artifacts, which, according to the taped handwritten note on the back states: This 1865 photo (not a photo, think it was cut out from a book) shows the results of the bombardment and fires that swept through Charleston. Both have become writing touchstones. I acquired then at an estate sale. Designer and high end pretties in the front room while the "junk" was in the back room. I'm a bibliophile. I always head for the books and there they were. I picked them up, along with a couple of belt buckles, and a taxidermy cobra that my nephew had to have. Total of everything, under twenty dollars. History, it seems, sells for pittance. Not that I am personally complaining about the cost, however it reflects what we've become, relegating history to the junk room.


Still, I'm curious about the person who gathered and preserved the botanical specimens. Whoever made the album, the CW held significance. Why did they go to those specific areas? Were they trying to preserve and remember the significant seismic changes the country underwent during their lifetime? Was it only a hobby? Could it be that they suffered a loss? The Gothic side of me wants to go all Bronte-esque with something like : Angrily, she dug at the moss with her fingers; the dirt pushing under her nails as she tugged and pulled. The thought crossed her mind: Why not take a piece of this awful ground? It stole my heart. It devoured his flesh and bones, swallowing him up and never spitting him out. Her gaze fell upon the clump of green and dirt smudges on her hand. And this is all I have left of him.

Could that have been the reason for preserving the moss. Probably not, but that is the power of history's smaller moments and the smaller moments are my favorite writing sandboxes. Say I was writing a story centered around Gettysburg. I would read from numerous sources, but if I were writing about it, I wouldn't be writing about the battle/tactics/commanders. I would pocket it up to singular or dual experience or maybe I'd have someone go there later and dig up some moss. Still, I would want to know everything I could, just so I had a foundation of understanding.


Love the Hemingway quote. Have three Hemingway books on my TBR pile (re-reads).


LOL the sign.


As far as salad – mine would have been short: Two bites into her salad, she noticed hemlock snugged up against a tomato. You wrote a salad scene in a book?


About the cloth –

When you first encounter the protagonist, he's wrapping a cloth around his wrists. Because of the protagonist's kill count, the cloth becomes a physical representation of a classic urban legend or bogeyman story. Upon their first encounter, the captain perceives the protagonist as a soldier who can quickly squirrel up a tree. The discussion centers on the tracks and what was found in the tree. He doesn't realize who he's been speaking with until their second meeting. Eventually, the reason behind the cloth us revealed.


Poor rabbit!


I like Diana's answer! Every time I've tried to plot, it ended up a mess.


As far as the struggling writer - Beta reading and editing are essential tools for the writer. They are crucial in pinpointing plot holes, inconsistencies, streamlining the story, and removing any drag. I used to read/evaluate submissions for a literary agency, as well as doing crits/story dissection/ and analysis when necessary. That is part of prepping the story for submission/publication.


However, there is such a thing as too much. He tapped into so much writing advice—books, courses, beta reads, editing—that the conflicting opinions created creative paralysis. He found the writing increasingly difficult, and it suffered under the weight of an impossible expectation; the need for complete accuracy and exhaustive description stemming from external pressure of "how" he should tell his story. Writer's block completely stopped him; he was at an absolute standstill. His initial love for his story turned into hate, leaving him feeling like a failure. Writers in online groups were telling him he needed to index card this, color code that, and don't forget dialogue graphs. I don't know even know what dialogue graphs are. He tried to incorporate all the conflicting advice; it log jammed his creativity and tanked his WIP because he was letting others drive his story by prioritizing the feedback over his own vision.

 

[CWdiaryPA]

It's "Over The Mountains To Freedom," about the Overmountain Men. I should have named it "Over The Mountains To Fight," but hindsight is wonderful, of course.

If you want, you can edit your profile so your book shows up at the bottom of your posts (in general, like everytime you post, there it is, as a signature, at the bottom). I always like to check out what CWT posters create, but no one will know about your book unless you tell them. I only stumbled on this thread by accident.

Congratulations, this looks amazing. Obvious time-consuming research & writing then editing went into this . Looks like the kind of project you'd have had dreams about at night. Immersive the whole way writing.

I agree with the advice to take into careful consideration feedback from those you trust, but to also keep in what your gut tells you to. There's nothing worse than "written by committee," something I never had a problem with at San Francisco, but when I hit Iowa? Yikes. It's often a good idea to push in your writing what others would cut, even despise, or laugh at. You're eventually gonna get something true to you in your voice, in your vision alone. If it all ends up being your darlings, tough. Next time or book is more refined. Like that, on down the line. I only listen to those who have in their work what I I aim for in mine in some way. Like a lifeguard. You want one who knows how to swim before they try & save you.

 

[13 IL Cav & 64 GA Inf]

If you want, you can edit your profile so your book shows up at the bottom of your posts (in general, like everytime you post, there it is, as a signature, at the bottom). I always like to check out what CWT posters create, but no one will know about your book unless you tell them. I only stumbled on this thread by accident.

Congratulations, this looks amazing. Obvious time-consuming research & writing then editing went into this . Looks like the kind of project you'd have had dreams about at night. Immersive the whole way writing.

I agree with the advice to take into careful consideration feedback from those you trust, but to also keep in what your gut tells you to. There's nothing worse than "written by committee," something I never had a problem with at San Francisco, but when I hit Iowa? Yikes. It's often a good idea to push in your writing what others would cut, even despise, or laugh at. You're eventually gonna get something true to you in your voice, in your vision alone. If it all ends up being your darlings, tough. Next time or book is more refined. Like that, on down the line. I only listen to those who have in their work what I I aim for in mine in some way. Like a lifeguard. You want one who knows how to swim before they try & save you.

Thanks for your comments. You really understand. The extensive, time-consuming research, along with visits to actual places involved, constitute the reason that I decided not to write the 2 or 3 anticipated additional books about the Revolutionary War.

 

[CWdiaryPA]

Thanks for your comments. You really understand. The extensive, time-consuming research, along with visits to actual places involved, constitute the reason that I decided not to write the 2 or 3 anticipated additional books about the Revolutionary War.

It takes it out of you. I spent *four* solid years on mine. Ridiculous. I tend to get obsessed when I'm writing something. Drop down into it & forget about everything else. It's like a fugue state. I know in the moment I'm taking it too far, but those moments stretch into months then years. Then switching out & into something else, redirecting, is its own challenge. For me it adds insult to injury when pretty much no one reads the thing, but I can't tell in advance what's going to make it. Every once in a blue moon something hits beyond all expectation. But those are the blue moons, & wow it's tiring getting there.

It's something someone has to experience firsthand. It's werewolfian. Yeah, I get it. But now that it's just trickle editing here & there, I'm glad I did it. What's the quote? It is good to have written? Like amnesia after giving birth to triplets. What, that? Oh, it was a breeze. Nope. Nonono. I ain't forgetting. Makes it hard to get to the next piece, which I've put off for years now, a longish cnf piece about the Manhattan Project. Almost like C-PTSD. Probably wouldn't take but a couple months, yet I can't face it right now. Have all my materials laying in a pile on the living room floor for a couple years (my way of reminding myself, & when I finish, I take everything off the floor).

Will you work on anything next? Shorter than book length, do you think?