The Never-Ending Question

[leftyhunter]

Yes, there were some instances that Southern forces made forays into Northern territory, but as a whole the strategy was defensive. Wasn't the expedition into Kentucky more in the hopes of raising recruitment from that state? (Which never manifested by the way.)

The CSA tried to fight on the offense but the people of the border states simply would not rise up against the tyrant Lincoln regime. Go figure.
Leftyhunter

 

[cash]

Yes, there were some instances that Southern forces made forays into Northern territory, but as a whole the strategy was defensive. Wasn't the expedition into Kentucky more in the hopes of raising recruitment from that state? (Which never manifested by the way.)

It was to make Kentucky a part of the confederacy.

 

[leftyhunter]

It was to make Kentucky a part of the confederacy.

That and the fine race horses and bourbon.
Leftyhunter

 

[cash]

That and the fine race horses and bourbon.
Leftyhunter

Maybe Bragg was looking for the perfect mint julep recipe.

 

[leftyhunter]

Maybe Bragg was looking for the perfect mint julep recipe.

If any man had need for massive amounts of high quality booze...
Leftyhunter

 

[hanna260]

If any man had need for massive amounts of high quality booze...
Leftyhunter

He could borrow some from Grant.

 

[leftyhunter]

He could borrow some from Grant.

Grants drinking during the CW may of been highly overstated. Lincoln said he would send a barrel of what ever Grant was drinking to his other generals or words to that effect.
Leftyhunter

 

[hanna260]

Grants drinking during the CW may of been highly overstated. Lincoln said he would send a barrel of what ever Grant was drinking to his other generals or words to that effect.
Leftyhunter

I know. Grant got schlapped with the good old- oh, he's got a headache- must be drunk!, he's not here today- must be drunk!, he swaggered a bit that one time on that boat- must be drunk! by the press. And was a bit of a lightweight. And un-doubtedly had some problems but no evidence that it effected anything.

Was being funny.

 

[cash]

I know. Grant got schlapped with the good old- oh, he's got a headache- must be drunk!, he's not here today- must be drunk!, he swaggered a bit that one time on that boat- must be drunk! by the press. And was a bit of a lightweight. And un-doubtedly had some problems but no evidence that it effected anything.

Was being funny.

 

[cash]

Lincoln said he would send a barrel of what ever Grant was drinking to his other generals or words to that effect.
Leftyhunter

Expired Image Removed

 

[hanna260]

This is about the third thread Grant has derailed to be about him this week (and I think he's been using me as his instrument-sorry!). Has he been taking lessons from Sherman and That Guy?

 

[cash]

This is about the third thread Grant has derailed to be about him this week. Has he been taking lessons from Sherman and That Guy?

I submit he's on topic. The OP asks how did the Union win? Grant is a big reason.

 

[hanna260]

I submit he's on topic. The OP asks how did the Union win? Grant is a big reason.

He's on topic. Me speculating about his drinking capabilities? Probably not.

But moving on- how integral was oft-ignored theaters such as the Trans-Miss to the Union victory?

 

[Elennsar]

Yes, there were some instances that Southern forces made forays into Northern territory, but as a whole the strategy was defensive. Wasn't the expedition into Kentucky more in the hopes of raising recruitment from that state? (Which never manifested by the way.)

To make Kentucky part of the Confederacy (as Cash said).

I'm not saying the Confederates were constantly and invariably on the offense, but none of those actions indicate some defensive mindset interfering with acting offensively or abstaining from attempted conquest.

What stopped the Confederates from attacking Washington was the obstacles in the way of success, not some refusal to advance beyond the seceded states.

 

[unionblue]

The North certainly had the significant resources, manpower and naval advantages, but a case can be made that the Lincoln Government was willing to pay a butcher bill large enough to force a determine and defiant South back into his union against their will.

"Our cat has a longer tail."

Lincoln on the numerical advantage of the Union.

 

[unionblue]

View attachment 62842

cash,



LOVED it!

Thanks for posting,
Unionblue

 

[Rebel_Giratina]

He's on topic. Me speculating about his drinking capabilities? Probably not.

But moving on- how integral was oft-ignored theaters such as the Trans-Miss to the Union victory?

As far as I can tell, much of the Trans-Miss was about keeping MO and the territories (AZ, NM) in the Union, as well as missions tangential to dividing the Confederacy in two via taking the Mississippi River. Why it descended into raiding and guerrilla warfare, I haven't a clue. I pay as little attention to that theater as most of the rest of you.

 

[Pat Answer]

As far as I can tell, much of the Trans-Miss was about keeping MO and the territories (AZ, NM) in the Union, as well as missions tangential to dividing the Confederacy in two via taking the Mississippi River. Why it descended into raiding and guerrilla warfare, I haven't a clue. I pay as little attention to that theater as most of the rest of you.

Hehehe. Guilty as charged; I just started learning the basics of the Trans-Mississippi last year myself, so I'll have to defer to the experts here. But my first thought is that infrastructure is needed to support and (somewhat) control large armies, so even the relatively big campaigns there took on some 'hit-and-run' characteristics. I do know Missouri seemed especially to be a place of deeply divided loyalties - and other long-standing conflicts that got caught up in the larger war in tragic ways.

 

[leftyhunter]

As far as I can tell, much of the Trans-Miss was about keeping MO and the territories (AZ, NM) in the Union, as well as missions tangential to dividing the Confederacy in two via taking the Mississippi River. Why it descended into raiding and guerrilla warfare, I haven't a clue. I pay as little attention to that theater as most of the rest of you.

Their are a number of good books on that subject why the COIN war in Mo was so nasty. COIN war in general is pretty much a no hold bared fight then and now.T.J. Stiles "Jesse James the last rebel of the Civil War is in my opinion a very good place to start.
Leftyhunter

 

[fwb35]

And again with the myth. Until the later part of the war when the north start issuing breach loading rifles in larger umbers there south was not armed in a way that gave them any clear disadvantage.
(and it is a debatable if having a smothbore is actually any disadvantage with the terrain and lack of skills of the soldiers)

At the start of the war, they had about the same number of weapons in storage in arsenals in the south. They captured the arsenal in Harper Ferry and imported better arms from Britain than the Union.\

At Vicksburg many of Grants men exchanged their old guns for modern enfields.

Lack of small arms of powder for them was NOT one of the disadvantages of the south.

Interesting, I read they were exchanging their arms for the better Sprigfield rifles, the Springfields were machine made where the Enfields were hand produced, some Enfields were of good quality and some were of poor quality.
The Springfields were also .58 cal where the Enfield was .577 cal, easier to fit a .577 mini in a dirty .58 barrel than the other way around.