Custer That Man, Custer!

[Eric Wittenberg]

I don't want to belabor this because I'm not overly interested in this point. I would mention that Mosby was a lawyer and he wrote his memoirs later on in life. He had no particular ax to grind against Yankees, he became a Republican after the war and was on friendly terms with Grant. In fact one of the last things Grant did in his life was to secure a position for Mosby at the Southern Pacific Railroad. Being a lawyer, Mosby would have checked his facts with regard to Custer. And, he would have had the opportunity to read and respond to those who had a different opinion, as he did with those who took after Stuart for his riding around Union Army before Gettysburg.

It appears that at a minimum, it was Custer's men who did most of the killing. Now, exactly who's orders they were under when they did the killing seems a bit murky. It appears several of the Union commanders had no compunction about ordering the murder of POWs. That's probably more disturbing than exactly who was directly at fault. Obviously, Custer is not at fault for the one man that was taken in front of Torbert who ordered him killed.

And, last but not least, Mosby is kin to me and blood is thicker than water. I'm standing by my kinsman.

Whatever. Like I said, believe what you want. I'm not going to try to change your mind since you've already made it up anyway.

 

[Sbc]

It is not so much that what he did is marginalized, as that he was only a part of the whole engagement, which was led by Gregg. Gregg gets almost no credit, while Custer, was not in charge, gets the credit for winning the whole shooting match. It is not necessarily his fault, although I am skeptical of that, but it is his personality that gets to me.
As for my opinion of Custer, it was formed long before I knew he had anything to do with the Civil War. My subsequent reading of Custer since, has only proved the adage that familiarity breeds contempt.

Agreed--Custer was ****** bag for how he acted post-war which is why is still famous.

 

[StevenACole]

The Weekly Vincennes Western Sun July 8, 1865

There is a rather unflattering story about Gen. Custer in the Smithsonian Magazine. It was reported that "Don Juan" almost threw Gen. Custer during the Grand Review March in 1865. That must have been quite a horse!

 

[Specster]

Ya, he was a real POS, putting his life on the line to free slaves and/or reunify the nation.

And to follow orders in the West, post war.

A real villan.

 

[Patrick H]

If Stanley's take on this is accurate (and we have only his word for it) and if Stanley was the ranking officer, then, yes, Custer would have come across as a arrogant little poppinjay.

 

[Specster]

Good post! I'm just curious--what are you asking, when you say...""Or did he?" Did whom? And what? I've always liked the comment (hate to say it was Tom Cruise in The Last Samurai )--"...he fell in love with his own legend, and his troopers died for it." Again, interesting to hear what a fellow officer thought of him. Thanks.

Do you know if that quote is fact, legend or Hollywood script fantasy?

 

[brentcox]

I came across the following passages about George Armstrong Custer in the book entitled, The Personal Memoirs of Major-General David S. Stanley. Stanley commanded the 1873 Yellowstone Expedition in which Custer was a participant. In a series of letters to his wife Stanley mentions Custer a number of times.

June 28th -

"...I have had no trouble with Custer, and will try to avoid having any; but I have seen enough of him to convince me that he is a cold blooded, untruthful and unprincipled man. He is universally despised by all the officers of his regiment excepting his relatives and one or two sycophants. He brought a trader in the field without permission, carries an old negro woman, and cast iron cooking stove, and delays the march often by his extensive packing up in the morning. As I said I will try, but I am not sure I can avoid trouble with him..."

July 1st -

"...I had a little flurry with Custer as I told you I probably would. We were separated 4 miles, and I intended him to assist in getting the train, his own train, over the Muddy River. Without consulting me he marched off 15 miles, coolly sending me a note to send him forage and rations. I sent after him, ordered him to halt where he was, to unload his wagons, and send for his own rations and forage, and never to presume to make another movement without orders.
"I knew from the start it had to be done, and I am glad to have so good a chance, when there could be no doubt who was right. He was just gradually assuming command, and now he knows he has a commanding officer who will not tolerate his arrogance."

Stanley and Custer never served together during the Civil War, but both officers were friends of Sheridan. Stanley, himself, could be as cantankerous, troublesome and as judgmental as most Civil War generals, but in this case he appears to have had a pretty fair and accurate opinion of the man who would eventually and shortly lead his own regiment to destruction along the Little Big Horn River.

Or did he? Did Stanley get it right?

I used to love teaching my lecture on Washita, the Gold Expedition, Battle of Rosebud and the Battle of Greasy Grass Creek (Little Bighorn). My students knew how much I loved calling Custer a moron, and proving my statement to be true. Of course, decades before most, I was privy to Native American reports and descendants told me the truth about Greasy Grass as they called it. Custer was an arrogant fool in Native American issues and his only battle against them was the attack at Washita (1868) on the peaceful encampment of Black Kettle and the Cheyenne. The next time he attacked, he was the one who died. Custer was dangerous and I can see how that worked in the Civil War, yet his knowledge of Indians was little. He attacked the Sun Dance camp at Greasy Grass on June 25 1876. You do not attack men, women, and children that are legally in a religious ceremony on land guaranteed by the Treaty of Fort Laramie. One day I would like to tell the whole story of those foolish moments before he committed suicide on Last Stand Hill, but today is not the day. Yes I would agree an Arrogant Moron! And Im being nice about it.

 

[Jim in Wisconsin]

I've read about his wife objecting to a monument that was put up for him, but it didn't exactly say what it was that she objected to. It had him "dismounted, holding a pistol and sword". Isn't there (or wasn't there) there a tradition of showing men on horseback if they died in battle and standing if they didn't? Is that what she didn't like? She was very particular about his legacy.

 

[Dave Wilma]

The Weekly Vincennes Western Sun July 8, 1865

View attachment 86614

There is a rather unflattering story about Gen. Custer in the Smithsonian Magazine. It was reported that "Don Juan" almost threw Gen. Custer during the Grand Review March in 1865. That must have been quite a horse!

A horse worth $9,000 1865 dollars. Some horse.

 

[brentcox]

There is still a large debate over where George Armstrong Custer is actually buried and the mystery isn't likely to be solved despite countless claims by individuals knowing where he is located. There are three different accounts of his burial and none seem to be fully documented. As with any individual involved in the Indian Wars, a phrase that is ridiculous for they were encroaching on Native American lands, there is no way to tell who knows the truth. Indian accounts place his burial at an entirely different location whereas many believe he was buried at Last Stand Hill and later moved to West Point. Libby Custer was so struck on her husband that she could hardly write the truth about him after Greasy Grass Creek. So, if anyone thinks they know where the burial is, they better get DNA to prove it. Its like Jesse James, no conclusive genetic evidence has been provided. Or for Adolf Hitler either lol. The truth is often far away from evidence presented by the masses.

 

[FZ11]

I used to love teaching my lecture on Washita, the Gold Expedition, Battle of Rosebud and the Battle of Greasy Grass Creek (Little Bighorn). My students knew how much I loved calling Custer a moron, and proving my statement to be true. Of course, decades before most, I was privy to Native American reports and descendants told me the truth about Greasy Grass as they called it. Custer was an arrogant fool in Native American issues and his only battle against them was the attack at Washita (1868) on the peaceful encampment of Black Kettle and the Cheyenne. The next time he attacked, he was the one who died. Custer was dangerous and I can see how that worked in the Civil War, yet his knowledge of Indians was little. He attacked the Sun Dance camp at Greasy Grass on June 25 1876. You do not attack men, women, and children that are legally in a religious ceremony on land guaranteed by the Treaty of Fort Laramie. One day I would like to tell the whole story of those foolish moments before he committed suicide on Last Stand Hill, but today is not the day. Yes I would agree an Arrogant Moron! And Im being nice about it.

Custer probably did not shoot himself. Further,Custer was not a Moron......He was a Jerk.....there is a difference.

 

[Dave Wilma]

There is still a large debate over where George Armstrong Custer is actually buried and the mystery isn't likely to be solved despite countless claims by individuals knowing where he is located. There are three different accounts of his burial and none seem to be fully documented. As with any individual involved in the Indian Wars, a phrase that is ridiculous for they were encroaching on Native American lands, there is no way to tell who knows the truth. Indian accounts place his burial at an entirely different location whereas many believe he was buried at Last Stand Hill and later moved to West Point. Libby Custer was so struck on her husband that she could hardly write the truth about him after Greasy Grass Creek. So, if anyone thinks they know where the burial is, they better get DNA to prove it. Its like Jesse James, no conclusive genetic evidence has been provided. Or for Adolf Hitler either lol. The truth is often far away from evidence presented by the masses.

I never heard that question. Custer was identified by men who know him and buried in a marked grave. The remains were exhumed years later and removed to West Point. They got it wrong? The Sioux and Cheyenne did not know they had killed "Yellow Hair" until after they left the field.

 

[ole]

I'm not sure why I feel compelled to defend Custer. He was reckless and impetuous and a bit of a fool, but he was also gallant and brave and one helluva fighter. His last, biggest mistake was not waiting for Terry before he attacked thousands of Lakotahs and Cheyenne at Greasy Grass. Ooops! The tribes had always decamped and moved in the face of a threat, and that was the purpose -- move them back to the reservations. This time, they didn't, and he paid for it with his life and approximately 210 in the companies that he led.

 

[Borderruffian]

I'm not sure why I feel compelled to defend Custer. He was reckless and impetuous and a bit of a fool, but he was also gallant and brave and one helluva fighter. His last, biggest mistake was not waiting for Terry before he attacked thousands of Lakotahs and Cheyenne at Greasy Grass. Ooops! The tribes had always decamped and moved in the face of a threat, and that was the purpose -- move them back to the reservations. This time, they didn't, and he paid for it with his life and approximately 210 in the companies that he led.

He did it to save his butt Ole. He ws in hot water with Grant over the whole congressional testimony that implicated Grants Brother and Sam was a tad peeved so Audie thought a big victory would get him of the hook. ALt col doesn't fet credit if a superior is present.

 

[dlofting]

He was reckless and impetuous and a bit of a fool, but he was also gallant and brave and one helluva fighter

If you read TJ Stiles latest Book, "Custer's Trials" this is what he thinks, in a nutshell. I've read several books on Custer and this is by far and away the best.....very well researched and evenly presented.

 

[FZ11]

He did it to save his butt Ole. He ws in hot water with Grant over the whole congressional testimony that implicated Grants Brother and Sam was a tad peeved so Audie thought a big victory would get him of the hook. ALt col doesn't fet credit if a superior is present.

Custer isn't acting on his own hook. That's a myth. Custer is following Terry's orders. It's not Custer's fault that Indians discovered him a day too soon setting in motion his premature attack with the historical results.

 

[BillO]

Custer isn't acting on his own hook. That's a myth. Custer is following Terry's orders. It's not Custer's fault that Indians discovered him a day too soon setting in motion his premature attack with the historical results.

Of course it was his fault. He didn't listen to the scouts and he didn't understand or want to believe what his own eyes told him. It was a stunning defeat and he was in charge on the ground.

 

[Borderruffian]

So let me get this straight.He split his command Benteen with the pack train Reno with his force Audie takes a roundabout route after telling Reno he'd have support when he attacked. Charges one of the biggest encampments ever gets massacared 'the forces on the redoubt were basically under siege for at least 36 hours and all this after scouts Told him there were more Indias than he could shake a stick at bTerry told him too?and it's not his fault?

 

[Will Carry]

I have heard the old Indian saying "Custer had it coming", but the man was a legend and will never die. I always wonder about what kind of commander he really was. The post war US Cavalry in the West, from what I understand, were not a happy bunch. I'm sure they complained about all their officers to some extent. The soldiers in Viet Nam complained about Col. Hackworth too.

I really don't have much to add but I am really enjoying reading this post.

 

[James N.]

There is a rather unflattering story about Gen. Custer in the Smithsonian Magazine. It was reported that "Don Juan" almost threw Gen. Custer during the Grand Review March in 1865. That must have been quite a horse!

Custer was considered a superb horseman, though there were times when he got careless and did something foolish, like when he while hunting buffalo on the plains he got excited and accidentally shot his own horse in the head and had to walk back to his command! The Grand Review wasn't such an occasion, however - instead, he's usually accused of "showing off" because it wasn't until he approached the reviewing stand where Grant, Meade, Stanton, and President Johnson sat that he "lost control" of his mount which then bolted down the street and had to be reined in; returning to his proper place in the ranks at the head of his division he made a sweeping bow to the dignitaries which was recorded by (I believe) soldier-artist Charles Reed in a sketch.